Coffee/Ammonia Fertilizer

DaveG

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This is probably more a general plug for using fertilizer on seedlings than it is a plug for my own methods, but four of these seedlings got fertilizer last time I fertilized and the rest did not until today. This is because the rest are slightly younger, so they hadn't sprouted quite yet when I was fertilizing last time. Yes, they're younger, but the one in the center and the one right of center aren't very much younger than those four.
 

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DaveG

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Good God you wasted coffee???????????????
Don't you know coffee is the lifeblood of America!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't drink coffee, but my wife does. Sometimes I use it hot when my wife has already left for the morning. So that coffee would be wasted anyway.
 

DaveG

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Dave....

Chopped up bits of steel?

'Splaine Lucy.... ! :eek: lol :D

Kindest regards,

Victrinia

Galvanized steel, mostly for the zinc coating, but the iron is good too. My theory was that since it oxidizes slowly and leeches through the soil it's probably a reasonable slow-release source of zinc. But I have no scientific process for deciding how much to use. Usually I only use a few small pieces per pot though.

Honestly, I probably don't need to use it, with everything else I add now. But I'm sure it doesn't hurt anything either. Still, I'm not making the recommendation that anyone else here do the same thing unless they're using soil that's too poor in zinc. And if that's the case, I'd hope they're not using it for bonsai.
 
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Bill S

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Ms Vic., pardon moi francais but T.F.F.

Even though you are too young to really remember that show, it was one of the great lines, of about any show.:cool:
 

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I can't stay muzzled any longer.

With all due respect to you Dave and the mad scientist that obviously lives with in you. Why would you put anything into your soil as a nutrient source when you have no idea what the NPK is or know if it can be absorbed in the method your administering it...i.e zinc, iron. Also with the coffee your Ph must be heavy on the acidic side something that does not bode well for a target of neutral Ph soil

This approach to feeding seems a bit cavalier .... there are recipes out there that are figured out to the ounce for each ingredient.....You say your trees are doing alright...but does that mean their not dead yet...or ... there growing with vigor and thriving.
 
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Ms Vic., pardon moi francais but T.F.F.

Even though you are too young to really remember that show, it was one of the great lines, of about any show.:cool:

Are you kiddin? I have always been a huge I Love Lucy fan... I would be hard pressed to pick a favorite episode. :D

I'm a classic TV/Movie kind of girl... Glad to have amused you... ;)

V
 
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No offense to Dave, and I hope it will not be your experiance... but I remember the time I decided to be ubber clever with soil amendments and ferts... :( A lot of things died that I might learn the lesson that less is often more.

I must admit, Texans get VERY creative sometimes though - you are not the first, and surely not the last... and with your crazy warm weather and humidity you get to get away with a lot more than the rest of us. :D

V
 

DaveG

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I can't stay muzzled any longer.

With all due respect to you Dave and the mad scientist that obviously lives with in you. Why would you put anything into your soil as a nutrient source when you have no idea what the NPK is or know if it can be absorbed in the method your administering it...i.e zinc, iron. Also with the coffee your Ph must be heavy on the acidic side something that does not bode well for a target of neutral Ph soil

This approach to feeding seems a bit cavalier .... there are recipes out there that are figured out to the ounce for each ingredient.....You say your trees are doing alright...but does that mean their not dead yet...or ... there growing with vigor and thriving.

Tom, I don't know the exact NPK ratio of what I'm using, but I understand what an NPK ratio is and I reached this point by starting with very little of both ingredients and adding more or backing off as needed, until reaching the point I'm at presently. This isn't something I started doing yesterday. Nor is it something I just threw together.

And of course zinc and iron aren't available to the plants in the form they're applied. But small amounts will become available as they react with their environment. As these are micronutrients, I don't see why this is a problem. (As I understand it, they're usually dosed in the ranges of ounces and pounds per acre.) Sure, I could research to find their most available forms, order those exact compounds, and measure out the right amount down to the granule each time I fertilize, but would my plants really be noticeably better off for it?

As for the pH, I think I would actually be aiming for a soil pH of about 6 to 6.5 instead of neutral for nearly all of the plants I have. I don't presently have good equipment to test the current soil pH. I've tried getting one of the cheap meters they have at Home Depot for it, but I found it to be really unreliable. When it worked, it was telling me I was close to my mark. Getting something better to measure soil pH is on my to-do list, but that's going to have to wait for availability of funds.

However, I will say that since nearly all of the acids in coffee are weak acids and ammonia is a weak base, it shouldn't be that difficult to combine them in a weak solution and get something close enough to a pH of 6 or 7 that it won't burn roots. That is, with a basic understanding of what you're working with.
 

DaveG

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No offense to Dave, and I hope it will not be your experiance... but I remember the time I decided to be ubber clever with soil amendments and ferts... :( A lot of things died that I might learn the lesson that less is often more.

I must admit, Texans get VERY creative sometimes though - you are not the first, and surely not the last... and with your crazy warm weather and humidity you get to get away with a lot more than the rest of us. :D

V

Well, I received the standard education in chemistry that every engineer gets and I did very well at it. Of course, that doesn't mean I'm immune to making mistakes, but so far I haven't killed anything with fertilizer experiments. It's likely I've stressed some things, but that can always be corrected.

Usually, when my stuff dies, it's either some combination of repotting and frost or scorching heat. I haven't had very much die since I've been here in Texas. (I was actually living in Illinois until 2 years ago.) Luckily, most of what has died hasn't been very valuable. The worst loss here so far was a small crape myrtle. For some reason, it's taking me longer to learn what the crape myrtles need than it has with my other trees.
 
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lol... well you have a leg up on me then... no chemical engineering for me... so I made classic bonehead mistakes... I won't even get into it... I was so dumb. Needless to say... they burned to death. UGH.


The only thing I really question is the metal bits... it's easier/more effective to just add iron chelates to your soup. By the time you will likely need to repot developing trees, it's doubtful you'll have had enough oxidizing occur to have provided the nutrients you were attempting to.

Please correct me if I am wrong... :)

V
 

DaveG

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lol... well you have a leg up on me then... no chemical engineering for me... so I made classic bonehead mistakes... I won't even get into it... I was so dumb. Needless to say... they burned to death. UGH.


The only thing I really question is the metal bits... it's easier/more effective to just add iron chelates to your soup. By the time you will likely need to repot developing trees, it's doubtful you'll have had enough oxidizing occur to have provided the nutrients you were attempting to.

Please correct me if I am wrong... :)

V

Well, I didn't say I'm a chemical engineer. :p I'm an electrical engineer, but electrical engineers are required to take some chemistry classes. I also read on it now and then though.

Iron chelates would be more effective for the iron, but my primary purpose for adding the pieces was for the zinc. It's true that, by the time I repot, the plants wouldn't get very much from the pieces of wire, but I also wouldn't want them to get very much. And I wouldn't want them to get very much all at once. Is it enough? Eh, that would probably be a very difficult to show without some expensive scientific instruments that I just don't have access to. So I won't make any claims about that. Am I correcting you? Well, I don't really know for sure.
 
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lol points taken on all counts... I can only go by my experiance... I feed iron chelates (never added zinc before... so I'm not sure what it does) in my soup... and so I can say without doubt that they love it. :D

Not often, only a few times a growing season... but they love it. What benefit does zinc play for trees?

V
 

DaveG

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lol points taken on all counts... I can only go by my experiance... I feed iron chelates (never added zinc before... so I'm not sure what it does) in my soup... and so I can say without doubt that they love it. :D

Not often, only a few times a growing season... but they love it. What benefit does zinc play for trees?

V

I'll admit to you that it's been a year since I did any research on it and I had to Google around again for information. While I'm not particularly pleased with the page design and I probably wouldn't use the source in a paper, this place seems to have collected some decent information on micronutrients:

http://www.ecochem.com/t_micronutrients.html

Additionally, here's part of a book that discusses the chemical composition of coffee:

http://chestofbooks.com/food/beverages/Tea-Coffee-Cocoa/Coffee-Chemical-Composition.html
 

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For a bit over a year now, my typical fertilizer for all of my plants has been some combination of leftover brewed coffee and household ammonia. Usually, I fill the bottom of a gallon jug with about a half inch of coffee, half or less that amount of ammonia (usually leaning toward less), then fill the jug to the top with water.

On a related note, I find that gathering the tail hairs from a retired quarter horse and dipping them in soldering paste and igniteing them with an old Model T coil under a mason jar makes a pretty good light bulb. I found that the stupid bulbs at wallgreens were just as good and only cost 79 cents. I decided my time was worth more.

heres to the Rube Goldberg in all of us......

Al
 

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lol points taken on all counts... I can only go by my experiance... I feed iron chelates (never added zinc before... so I'm not sure what it does) in my soup... and so I can say without doubt that they love it. :D

Not often, only a few times a growing season... but they love it. What benefit does zinc play for trees?

V

When added to the bark it cuts down on sunburn?
 
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"Zinc is not mobile in plants so zinc-deficiency symptoms occur mainly in new growth. Poor mobility in plants suggests the need for a constant supply of available zinc for optimum growth. The most visible zinc deficiency symptoms are short internodes and a decrease in leaf size."

Hello McFly....!!! You are fighting what you are trying to create! lol (grinning from ear to ear) :D :D :D

I will now never intentionally feed zinc...lol

Thanks for clearing that up for me. :D:cool:

Yours mostly kindly and in amusement,

Victrinia
 

Smoke

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Well given that zinc in humans supports the immune system, I was hoping it might help them be disease resistant. :D

V

Unless you find Alzheimers a good thing....
 
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Unless you find Alzheimers a good thing....

I believe the jury is still out on that... there have been studies that Alzheimer's patients put on a zinc supplement responded well with positive improvement of memory, communication, interaction etc...

Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. :D

V
 

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That's an interesting combo. Do you know what the NPK ratio is? Another interesting solution is the un-buffered asprin dilution.

I've used aspirin for rooting hormone but not as fertilzer. Might you expound a little on this revelation?
 
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