Colander Pro and Cons

[mustt65]

hi all,
so i have a juniper that im air layering. there are already signs of roots so with winter coming the layer will be ready to chop and pot this coming spring. im looking to pot it in a colander and possibly in the ground aswell. i would like to hear some thoughts on colanders, what are some pros and cons. or is this something more for JBP? this here is the layer before it started rooting out.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Pros:
Lets lots of air reach the roots.
Soil drains well.
Open sides prevents tree from becoming root bound.

Cons (in Riverside):
Your soil dries very quickly. Be careful you don't kill your tree by forgetting to water it twice daily.
You can't place your colander on the ground, because roots will run right through the colander into the ground... which may be a good thing depending on your plans.
You won't be able to cook spaghetti for a while.

 

[Bananaman]

Ummm... spaghetti with akadama sauce.

 

[eb84327]

i go to the dollar store for mine.
if they are in the wind they dry out super fast, fyi

 

[Adair M]

The concept for using a colander for growing shohin JBP is they could be left alone for a couple years and the colanders would “air prune” the roots. And make the backbud close to the trunk. This would keep their rootballs small so that they could eventually go into a shohin size pot, without having to cut back heavy roots.

It’s just not necessary for junipers. They make a fine, fibrous root system on their own if put in good soil.

Deciduous trees can be repotted every year, and it’s not wise to risk them getting dried out. And usually colanders are poorly shaped for deciduous trees.

The Japanese don’t use colanders. Except a few guys do for shohin JBP.

 

[LanceMac10]

Ummm... spaghetti with akadama sauce.

Old lady made some last week......bad thing is, I don't use colanders!!!!!
Make sure the spouse can cook before you put a ring on it!


Long as the tree lives, use what you like!!

 

[coh]

Damn akadama breaks down too quickly in my stomach and ruins my drainage. Had to give it up. Turface works better.

 

[LanceMac10]

I have the Bonsai Today article about the guy growing great small Pines in colanders. Air-pruning isn't mentioned once, though people preach it.
In reading the article, it's more like @Adair M describes, not disturbing the rootball. They guy didn't have land to field-grow.

 

[mustt65]

Ummm... spaghetti with akadama sauce.

if you want to do bonsai you have to EAT , sleep and breath bonsai right!

 

[mustt65]

thanks peeps well it sounds like a colander is not necessary for this juniper so i will just got with a training pot or grow box.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Don't get me wrong... I have probably 20 shimpakus in pond baskets right now, which are more or less the same thing. And the reason I use Anderson flats is because the entire bottom is one big mesh grid.

 

[River's Edge]

Don't get me wrong... I have probably 20 shimpakus in pond baskets right now, which are more or less the same thing. And the reason I use Anderson flats is because the entire bottom is one big mesh grid.

I accept that some people do not like them and feel they do not work well. No different than any other tool. Used appropriately they work just fine. It helps to understand the pros and cons. I use them a lot, they can be effective for certain things and for certain lengths of times. I quit using them for some things they were reccomended for. They dry out to fast outside in the wind unless planted in a grow bed. Then one has to rotate and cut escaping roots. They can be tippy on the bench. Best used for smaller trees and cuttings i find. Pond baskets are a bit better in shape and usually larger in size. I do find colandars most effective for small pine seedlings switching from yogurt containers and encouraging better root growth on cuttings. Pictured below is a group of Kishu cuttings. They do very well in the greenhouse setting with colandars. The middle picture is a group of japanese maples in the grow bed. They require root cutting twice a growing season, lift and sever all escaping roots. The top picture was when the small pines started in the grow beds i could water as much as i wanted and rotate for even development. Take to the bench when wiring was needed. The grow beds contain a very high percentage of pumice. I should note that i use a wide variety of containers during various stages of developing Bonsai. I usually switch to bonsai pots during final refinement stages. Rarely if ever during development. A few pond baskets, lots of grow boxes and anderson flats. Regardless of the containers i am using inorganic bonsai mix. If i was keeping a few trees i would likely use more expensive containers. For production purposes at certain stages they are great and also cost effective. Young bonsai trees require lots of regular rootwork and development, they rarely stay in the same size container for too long.

 

[Adair M]

I accept that some people do not like them and feel they do not work well. No different than any other tool. Used appropriately they work just fine. It helps to understand the pros and cons. I use them a lot, they can be effective for certain things and for certain lengths of times. I quit using them for some things they were reccomended for. They dry out to fast outside in the wind unless planted in a grow bed. Then one has to rotate and cut escaping roots. They can be tippy on the bench. Best used for smaller trees and cuttings i find. Pond baskets are a bit better in shape and usually larger in size. I do find colandars most effective for small pine seedlings switching from yogurt containers and encouraging better root growth on cuttings. Pictured below is a group of Kishu cuttings. They do very well in the greenhouse setting with colandars. The middle picture is a group of japanese maples in the grow bed. They require root cutting twice a growing season, lift and sever all escaping roots. The top picture was when the small pines started in the grow beds i could water as much as i wanted and rotate for even development. Take to the bench when wiring was needed. The grow beds contain a very high percentage of pumice. I should note that i use a wide variety of containers during various stages of developing Bonsai. I usually switch to bonsai pots during final refinement stages. Rarely if ever during development. A few pond baskets, lots of grow boxes and anderson flats. Regardless of the containers i am using inorganic bonsai mix. If i was keeping a few trees i would likely use more expensive containers. For production purposes at certain stages they are great and also cost effective. Young bonsai trees require lots of regular rootwork and development, they rarely stay in the same size container for too long.

But your use of colanders is not typical, Frank. Especially burying them in beds of pumice.

Now, using raised beds of pumice as growing beds works great! Boon had a terrace of pumice grow beds for growing out JBP, and those trees would grow 3 inch diameter trunks in two years! They were just planted in the pumice. No colanders. Then, when harvested, they went into pond baskets for a couple years to develop root systems close to the trunk, because the roots ran wild in the pumice!

 

[River's Edge]

But your use of colanders is not typical, Frank. Especially burying them in beds of pumice.

Now, using raised beds of pumice as growing beds works great! Boon had a terrace of pumice grow beds for growing out JBP, and those trees would grow 3 inch diameter trunks in two years! They were just planted in the pumice. No colanders. Then, when harvested, they went into pond baskets for a couple years to develop root systems close to the trunk, because the roots ran wild in the pumice!

Exactly, i began with Boon when he first moved in and started intensives in that location. I believe you were in that class in November 2012 as well. At least you show up in some of the pictures Perhaps you recall having to adjust the new immigrant puppies to people the first couple of days. The terraced pumice beds were in the planning stages at that time. Boon and Jonas both contributed to my plans to use pumice in the raised beds that i built in April 2013. The colandars in the raised beds idea came later when i was dissapointed with some aspects using them on the outside benches.
I think you are making somewhat the same point, if one understands how to use something they can be effective! Boon understands the use of pumice in root growth and the value of pond baskets in adapting roots. My adaptation is due to older age and more infirmity. I do not wish to work them laying on the ground and i wish to be able to turn them occasionally. This way i skip the pond basket stage afterall the colandars have restrained and created a compact rootball already.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Con: More plastic garbage in the ecosystem/landfills!

 

[namnhi]

I used pond basket because it is cheap and the size about right!

 

[Stan Kengai]

One of the big advantages of colanders is that you can over-pot without fear of root problems. This gives you fast growth as the roots extend to colonize the pot. Once the roots grow out to the edge of the colander, they begin to ramify, which leads to finer top growth. The timing of this varies for every plant, but if you have good observation, you can use this to swith from sacrificial growth to the beginning of refinement.

I recently did this with an elm in a 16" colander. It grew to about 6 feet in the first year. I made successive chops during the second year to develop taper. The third years growth was slow and refined. I transplanted it this past spring, and was able to get it into a #6 training pot and continue refinement.

 

[River's Edge]

Con: More plastic garbage in the ecosystem/landfills!

Unless of course they are recycled. We have curbside pick up of recyclables each week! .

 

[mustt65]

so do colanders, anderson flats or pond baskets help out in anyway with creating good nebari or is it more for the root system?

 

[River's Edge]

so do colanders, anderson flats or pond baskets help out in anyway with creating good nebari or is it more for the root system?

For me the answer is as follows: Nebari is primarily created by the attention to rootwork in repotting and the tree's response to the conditions it is placed in. Not so much the container, in fact inground can often work well, along with all sorts of containers. The container is simply one aspect of the overall. The three containers above allow for excellent drainage, aeration and some root escape depending on how they are used. In each case they tend to restrain the root ball and promote division of roots for a more compact rootball of smaller roots.
So in short there are more variables to consider when one is after a specific response. And the answers change with the species and style of nebari desired. The combinations also vary with the climate and soil mix. None of them work well if the aftercare in incorrect or neglected.
Somehow i suspect the nebari will not develop very well without a good root system, for that matter neither will the tree