Colanders and collected trees

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#1
I have seen a lot of references to using colanders with collected trees. This is a new concept to me but I bought several 12 plastic colanders. So the first question is how do you stabilize the tree in the plastic colander? Do you run some wire up through the holes and strap it down? What about keeping the potting mix in the colander from falling through the holes? Do you line it with something or just use large diameter mixes? Any special mixes better than others or just your usual stuff—what about pure pumice or pine chips? I assume you just plop them down on the ground and soak them as you would any bonsai? What other tips and guidance can you offer with these? Thanks
 

sorce

Nonsense Rascal
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#2
That's how the pros roll. With root difficult species. Golden!

COLANDERS FOR REAL......

If you look at the design of the Swedish Air pruning pot....you'll see it has funnels that catch and airprune EVERY ROOT.

This is important, as it offers the ultimate control, balance.

With a design like Vance's boxes where the screen is directly at the outside and the entire outside edge can dry, though the roots cannot escape, (or at least not thru my 'window screen'), it is still a balanced airpruning.

My baskets.... 20180108_072312.jpg

Have good even, very slightly funneled (do to the material), holes. Some roots turn and go sideways before airpruning. I have a ginseng that went out, then back in sideways!
But the evenness allows for good balance, and the flat bottom allows for a bit more water to wick up into the core, the shin.

These are Colanders that serve BONSAI and the ARTIST fully.
Some Californians can find good Asian Market Colanders....but most readily available store bought ones, while not useless, simply don't offer the balanced root pruning which is THE reason to use them.

You can line a Pond basket with screen, but I've found that within so many layers, and that the roots can't pass through the screen, they actually don't root prune effectively enough to be considered a "Balanced Root Pruning Colander".

Basically, if there is a space in the material that is wider than the root tip, it is unbalanced and a terra cotta pot would serve better IMO.

I think my baskets hole/material is 70/30 - 80/20 a screen is 80/20 - 90/10...
That is Useful.

When the material is greater than the hole...
Not as Useful. Better alternatives.

PUTTING THEM TO USE.

If you pay attention here, you'll see people riding Smoke's pole about how good he is at Bonsai. He put's Colanders ON the ground with great success, no one speaks of it.

Anthony also puts Colanders IN the ground with great success.....and people talk all kinds of shit!

For the most appropriate learning here, you must be aware of this phenomenon and why, you see, Anthony is Peaceful and away on an Island. Smoke is Confrontational, Armed, and here in the States!

So you can see why some people can't figure the truth about colanders.

Me....

I want more control.....so I put my flat holeless bottom baskets ON the ground, this way I can see if any escaped roots are getting too large, and cut them off before!
Sides that NEED more extended root growth can be mossed, and roots guided into earth, and sides that are already nearing too thick, can be watched so no roots escape.

Control!

SO WITH THE TRUTH TRUTH ABOUT THEM.

After watching one of the more recent free Mirai streams, about the "shin", the "core", the "untouched beating heart of the rootmass directly under the trunk".....

And how we must "regenerate it" from nursery material...

I began thinking about how in nursery pots,
We "wet" out the core, replace with good bonsai soil, and regenerate the shin.

In Colanders, since water can not as readily wick back up into the shin, we are essentially "drying" the core for regeneration....

AFTER THIS REGENERATION IS COMPLETE, (unless otherwise ground growing)
WE MUST RETURN THE TREES TO BONSAI POTS TO KEEP THE SHIN, THE BEATING HEART, BEATING!

That Shin shit is key IMO.
Bigger key than any shit about Colanders!

I found that it only takes one, maybe 2 repottings, *REPOTTINGS specifically, not years, to replace soil in the shin, haven't gotten to regeneration yet, this needs to take place in a bonsai pot.

(*example 8 years for Mugo repotted every 4 years....2 years for elm repotted every year.)

Resorce.

Sorce
 

Anthony

Imperial Masterpiece
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#3
Wow @sorce ,

Gonna have to change your name to Sifu [ or Boss Sorce ]

For the colander, try twine, instead of wire to tie in, you want the tie to rot.
Check the size of the holes and use an inorganic just larger than the holes.

Same for your inorganic ---------- probably Bark ?

We use compost, and for whatever may wash out, a sprinkle of compost
on the surface can replace the lost organic.

If you rest on the ground, you can get the roots escaping underneath
and the tree really growing.
The side will still be air-pruned.
See Air-Pot on You tube for a visual explanation of air pruning.

Hopefully the others will jump in and add on.
Good Luck
Anthony
 

Anthony

Imperial Masterpiece
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#4
Oh, I should add on.

we water by hand and the watering can has a head that that delivers water
like gentle rain.
Even if we use a hose, the pump is set to deliver the water at a given pressure
and the simple head [ plastic ] will deliver water like a gentle rain.

Plus compost has an adhesive property, so it glues the soil together.
As long as the watering is gentle, nothing much washes
out.
We usual first wet on a concrete surface, compost particles would be
highly visible.
Three passes, one pass every 5 minutes.

The compost is lightly dampened, no dust to breathe and our inorganic
is pre-washed for dust removal.
For sifting, we use dampened handkerchiefs on our faces.
Good Day
Anthony

* Only the plastic spade touches the soil, no hands or dirt under fingernails.



*
 
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Location
Connecticut
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#6
It depends on the colander and the size of your mix. The ones from Thunder Group generally have holes small enough to keep your mix from sifting through. One thing you can do is actually use one of your colanders to sift with When you go to use your mix you won't have to worry about it falling out.

The mix I use will sift through the pond baskets you can get at Lowes so what I do is line them with drywall mesh tape. It doesn't stick all that well but long enough that I can get the tree planted if I'm careful. I have also used window screen to line the basket but it is a bit more of a pain.
 

M. Frary

Bonsai Godzilla
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#7
I put all collected trees in colanders right away.
I run wires through the holes to hold them in place.
I don't set them on the ground.
I don't bury them.
I don't collect trees to grow out trunks. That's already there. Which you need to think about when collecting. I use the colander for the fast recuperation time and growing lots of fine feeder roots they give the tree so they can be cut back to fit in a bonsai pot.
I don't care about shins,cores or mirais. No need to.
 
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Location
Vancouver Island, British Columbia
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#11
I have seen a lot of references to using colanders with collected trees. This is a new concept to me but I bought several 12 plastic colanders. So the first question is how do you stabilize the tree in the plastic colander? Do you run some wire up through the holes and strap it down? What about keeping the potting mix in the colander from falling through the holes? Do you line it with something or just use large diameter mixes? Any special mixes better than others or just your usual stuff—what about pure pumice or pine chips? I assume you just plop them down on the ground and soak them as you would any bonsai? What other tips and guidance can you offer with these? Thanks
I use pure pumice for collected trees, have not used colandars ever for collected due to size issues.;)
 

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Location
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#14
Wise and Sage man;). After valuable tree or two dry out/die in summer heat will see wisdom of box or large growing pot.
If you don't know how to water your trees based on what they are growing in it is not the pot that is to blame. Many people use colanders extensively even in hot dry climates. Watering and the mix just has to be adjusted accordingly.

In fact colanders actually work well with automatic watering systems since it is almost impossible to over water something in a colander.
 

Giga

Masterpiece
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#15
I use pond baskets as well for my shohin development, other than that my trees are to big.
 

M. Frary

Bonsai Godzilla
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#16
If you don't know how to water your trees based on what they are growing in it is not the pot that is to blame. Many people use colanders extensively even in hot dry climates. Watering and the mix just has to be adjusted accordingly.

In fact colanders actually work well with automatic watering systems since it is almost impossible to over water something in a colander.
Some people just don't know. Sad!
 
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#17
:) Ha, got Chinese colanders and food covers here at 2 feet wide and around 7 inches deep.
Good Day
Anthony
Is everything bigger in the West Indies Anthony? I thought that was only in Texas. My Bad. They came from China, everything must be bigger in China.
On a serious note with collected trees, the humidity aspect is paramount in recovery from my experience along with stable root temperature. Therefore i rule out colandars as appropriate for collected trees unless those two issues can be addressed in other ways.
I have automated watering systems but do not rely on them exclusively because we have the odd power failure, because nozzles can plug, because pumps can fail, just because. My summers are hot and dry for 10-14 weeks. So processes and materials are adapted for those conditions.
 

Anthony

Imperial Masterpiece
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#18
Frank,

we have a healthy Chinese population down here, probably 1% pure [ and still coming since 1870 something]
The Chinese word for Trinidad------ is eternal Spring.
Also probably 10 % Chinese mixed [ Trinidad's population is secretly supposed to be 3 million -shh ]

Clay soils and over healthy trees, we take only seeds and seedlings [ pencil thick ]

Colanders for us are only useful when ground / plant trough [ hope you have seen the images ]
growing as trees take between 1 to 3 years to hit own working size - 3 inch trunks.
In fact with the Chlorophora t. it is less than 6 months and this cultivar features more zelkova
type qualities.
And this tree grows all the way down to Argentina, so it may grow by you ?

As we discover more locals, the situation grows more interesting [ now around number 20 ish ]
Good Day
Anthony
 

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