Cold frame ideas zone 6b

Zac

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Hi I'm looking for info on cold frame ideas for the zone 6b area in Franklin county in south Central Pennsylvania. Construction ideas how to set them up and where ( outside, inside unheated shed or using window wells on east north east side of house) should I heat them and with what ( heaters or heating mats). What temp should trees go into cold frame. I have a juniper, cotoneaster demi lowfast, Chinese elm, yellow jasmine and a goshiki Holly (false holly). They are all in smaller pots 6-7 inch pots I'm pretty sure they can all stay out but not sure about the false Holly or elm because see different info on these. Is there any gadgets that will not brake the bank but will make things odds better in tree surviving I lost some last winter with them just in unheated shed thanks
 

penumbra

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For the plants you have mentioned I would not put them in a cold frame. I am in your zone and I have all of these plants. My Goshiki Osmanthus is about 30 years old now and about 3 x 3 feet. Best to heel the plants in a protected area, in ground, mulch or leaves.
Cold frames are useful when you have plants growing outside their zones. But they are used more to stabilize the temperature than to raise the temperature. Mine are in almost complete shade, otherwise the plants would cook. Cold frames are useful tools but like greenhouses, they have a learning curve.
 

rockm

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For the plants you have mentioned I would not put them in a cold frame. I am in your zone and I have all of these plants. My Goshiki Osmanthus is about 30 years old now and about 3 x 3 feet. Best to heel the plants in a protected area, in ground, mulch or leaves.
Cold frames are useful when you have plants growing outside their zones. But they are used more to stabilize the temperature than to raise the temperature. Mine are in almost complete shade, otherwise the plants would cook. Cold frames are useful tools but like greenhouses, they have a learning curve.
I would follow this advice as well. You are overcomplicating things with those plants in a cold frame. FWIW, trying to actively heat plants in winter can be a recipe for disaster. If you have a cold frame, your first fall back is ambient heat from the ground itself. by "heat" in overwintering, it's not about indoor kinds of heat. It's about keeping the trees just above their cold tolerance for as long as possible--that means "heat" can be 26-32 F...
 

Zac

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Ok thank you for advise. So your Chinese elm and goshiki Holly survive in zone 6 outside? See some say they're zone 4-5 others say they're zone 7-9. At what temp do you take off bench and heel them in. Penumbra do you have any other suggestions on the goshiki as a bonsai I haven't found any info on them thanks
 

Zac

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Yes I wasn't planning on heating them to inside temps was trying to find way to keep roots in the 28-45 degree range I read that is a ideal temp range for the trees in bonsai heresy. My shed last year when I lost my cotoneaster and elm got down to 10 degrees for several days maybe lower. So what if I heel them in in my basement window well so it protects from wind and shades them some my basement is not heated but stays around 45-50 degrees and on really cold nights or days cover it with frost cloth? I don't like losing trees so I know I'm probably over compensating. Last year was my first year with outdoor bonsai except the juniper I can't remember how many years I have had that think 3. Ok thanks again any advise is greatly appreciated I haven't found a local source for info yet so this forum is a tree saver lol
 

rockm

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Yes I wasn't planning on heating them to inside temps was trying to find way to keep roots in the 28-45 degree range I read that is a ideal temp range for the trees in bonsai heresy. My shed last year when I lost my cotoneaster and elm got down to 10 degrees for several days maybe lower. So what if I heel them in in my basement window well so it protects from wind and shades them some my basement is not heated but stays around 45-50 degrees and on really cold nights or days cover it with frost cloth? I don't like losing trees so I know I'm probably over compensating. Last year was my first year with outdoor bonsai except the juniper I can't remember how many years I have had that think 3. Ok thanks again any advise is greatly appreciated I haven't found a local source for info yet so this forum is a tree saver lol
45 is far too warm You're underestimating the trees. Ten degrees isn't all that big of a deal IF THE ROOTS WERE PROTECTED. That is why mulch is your friend, snow is an ally. The air temperatures may be 10, but in a pile of deep mulch it won't be near that, unless you have a two week of those temperatures.
 

rockm

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Ok thank you for advise. So your Chinese elm and goshiki Holly survive in zone 6 outside? See some say they're zone 4-5 others say they're zone 7-9. At what temp do you take off bench and heel them in. Penumbra do you have any other suggestions on the goshiki as a bonsai I haven't found any info on them thanks
Around here in No. Va. generally, I put all my trees under mulch Thanksgiving weekend...that's a very flexible date however. In the last few years, we've had extreme cold events in Nov. --when temps in mid-Nov. have been in the low 20s. That can be a very bad thing if there haven't been any shallower, less severe freezes up to then.

Keep an eye on the forecast, generally, you WANT to have your temperate zone trees hit by frosts and multiple (shallower) freezes before you get them into storage. Those low temps help the tree complete its preparations for dormancy. Generally, I let my trees get two or three freezes (about 30-28 F during the night) on the benches. I have large trees so the danger of freeze damage is minimal in those situations. Smaller trees won't be all that affected either, if the daytime temps the next day rebound (best to have those trees in shade, as direct sun on frozen soil and tree can complicate things.) It's sometimes hit or miss as to when those freezes arrive, so be attentive to what's coming weatherwise.
 

Zac

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Ok thanks all I'm going to try the heeled in mulch this year and hope all is well. Since I'm new to this I only buy smaller some would call pre bonsai trees that are fairly inexpensive most from eastern leaf to figure stuff out on and practice on then I'll get "real bonsai" LOL
 

penumbra

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Ok thank you for advise. So your Chinese elm and goshiki Holly survive in zone 6 outside? See some say they're zone 4-5 others say they're zone 7-9. At what temp do you take off bench and heel them in. Penumbra do you have any other suggestions on the goshiki as a bonsai I haven't found any info on them thanks
My Goshiki was never intended as a bonsai, but as a landscape plant. I don't much care for variegated bonsai as a rule, but I love variegated plants in general. If your roots are protected on either of the aforementioned plants, you should do fine. I have several Chinese Elm. They are placed on the ground and some leaves raked up around them. The holding space for them is next to the house and under a large viburnum and oakleaf hydrangea. The Goshiki has survived minus 14 F, but it is a well established plant.
 

penumbra

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So what if I heel them in in my basement window well
Just beware that in a window well, as under the eaves of a house, rain seldom falls so be sure to water. Last year I lost a couple plants in a window well because the got too dry. I was somewhat incapacitated so I could not get to them often enough. Keep in mind that it is seldom the cold that does a plant in, but it is the dry cold. Think freeze dried foods.
Around here in No. Va. generally, I put all my trees under mulch Thanksgiving weekend...that's a very flexible date however.
This is also my target date but some of my plants are protected until Christmas and some are not protected at all but stay on the bench. Know your plants.
 

Zac

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I'm tring to know my trees there is just so much conflicting information. The zone for the goshiki Holly is zone 7 so if I go by the one to two zone rule it'll be a zone 8 or 9 so I might have to give it a little more protection in my zone 6b I check on my trees every day when I take the dogs out so I'll be able to keep moist. Plus if it snows the window wells always fill up with snow. I have several variegated trees but they're indoors over winter so they give interest ( ficus and several serrissa) my girlfriend picks most of them out like the false Holly. I let her pick some to try and get her interested in the hobby. I just didn't know was going to be so hard to find info on the goshiki Holly it was sold as a bonsai but I guess nobody uses them as one
 

Zac

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So from what I've gotten from this is keep moist not wet and to protect from direct sun and wind and keep temp from fluctuating much and when temps get down to 30-28 degrees after some frost and milder freezes heel in
 

rockm

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I'm tring to know my trees there is just so much conflicting information. The zone for the goshiki Holly is zone 7 so if I go by the one to two zone rule it'll be a zone 8 or 9 so I might have to give it a little more protection in my zone 6b I check on my trees every day when I take the dogs out so I'll be able to keep moist. Plus if it snows the window wells always fill up with snow. I have several variegated trees but they're indoors over winter so they give interest ( ficus and several serrissa) my girlfriend picks most of them out like the false Holly. I let her pick some to try and get her interested in the hobby. I just didn't know was going to be so hard to find info on the goshiki Holly it was sold as a bonsai but I guess nobody uses them as one
One of the rules when choosing trees is getting marginally hardy species in your zone will definitely require extra consideration and protection. I have a live oak that was collected in Texas. It is quite capable of surviving winter here in Va., BUT it wouldn't thrive. I decided years ago to find it more adequate protection off site--since I haven't got the room for more substantial protection measures (i.e. cold greenhouse). It's been stored 70 miles away from me for the winter. Costs extra $ and time, but that's the deal I had to make to keep it.

Keeping trees hardy in your zone greatly simplifies all of this. Keeping NATIVE species simplifies things even more...
 

penumbra

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The zone for the goshiki Holly is zone 7 so if I go by the one to two zone rule it'll be a zone 8 or 9 so I might have to give it a little more protection in my zone 6b
If kept as a bonsai it probably will require more protection. When I planted my Goshiki it was considered a zone 7 plant but now I see some nurseries listing it as zone 6. It has been below zero several times in 30 years, but as a landscape plant.
 
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