collected crabapple

[catfish chapstick]

it had one flower the year i collected it. nothing since.

i will try to dig up a larger one soon hopefully.

 

[catfish chapstick]

here is a smaller one from a field in Ohio. I had a second one like it that I gave away. These plants are tougher than I expected. This one is already on its way..

 

[catfish chapstick]

here is an update. the tree is healthy and vigorous.

 

[John Ruger]

It's got a really nice taper to it. Thanks for the updates.

 

[Alex DeRuiter]

Great progress. I really like the flow of the trunk. This should make a very interesting piece when it's finished.

 

[catfish chapstick]

It's got a really nice taper to it. Thanks for the updates.

hey thanks. i like it. i think i have a developed taste for taller trees, that is to say, im not exactly a fan of pudgy fat trunks. my tastes are developing still and someday this tree will be the result of that journey.

Great progress. I really like the flow of the trunk. This should make a very interesting piece when it's finished.

thankyou. i hope in the future it is show-worthy. still, it needs a nicer pot.

 

[catfish chapstick]

i was just playing around in paint and came up with this virt. possible future for this tree?

i did recently shorten the tree by about four inches. let me know what you think!

 

[tanlu]

I read your whole thread and really like where you're going with this crab apple. It's inspired me to collect one myself! Do you collect in march? If you want blossoms why not try feeding it with bloom booster fertilizer? Mixing organic and chemical has always helped my trees, but then again, I don't have any flowering ones.

Looking forward to seeing this year's autumn color!

 

[catfish chapstick]

here it is currently. i didn't get any good fall photos.

 

[John Ruger]

nice and sleek; any fruit??

 

[catfish chapstick]

nice and sleek; any fruit??

No fruit. Not yet.

 

[catfish chapstick]

starting to push out leaves and its still winter but what can i do about it//

 

[raydomz]

This damn mild winter I tell ya.
One of my maples buds are turning pink, I hope I don't lose it this year :/

 

[catfish chapstick]

here is an update, before the leaves get huge. put it in a deeper round pot to hopefully develope the roots better. i should plant it in the ground.

 

[JudyB]

I dunno, it looks like you have the trunk where you want it, so I don't know that the ground is going to do much but grow coarser branches than you want. I think it's on it's way. Stan Kengai seems to know loads about crabs, and he said that developing them slowly (about an inch a year) is the best way for these.

 

[ghues]

Hey Cat, I agree with Judy...about aging it in the pot.........besides compared to many of us you've got the time
It looks like its got a nice base, perhaps you could have raised it a bit?
Cheers Graham

 

[Stan Kengai]

I dunno, it looks like you have the trunk where you want it, so I don't know that the ground is going to do much but grow coarser branches than you want. I think it's on it's way. Stan Kengai seems to know loads about crabs, and he said that developing them slowly (about an inch a year) is the best way for these.

Thanks for the vote of confidence Judy. Developing branches slowly, IMO, is the best way to go with crabs. The problem with apples is that they don't ramify well, nothing like a maple or elm, kind of like a Japanese quince. So in order to get any character in the branches, you have to get your movement near the trunk, as opposed to near the ends like many other species.
Here is what I've learned about training crabapple branches (this is for my climate, I have no idea how they might react in other parts of the country, especially fall pruning in colder climates):

Wiring-
Branches become very brittle often in less than a year, so to get major bends, wire new branches in early summer when they are semi-hard. To put in subtle movement, you can wire in the fall immediately after leaf drop. Wire should be removed in late winter (around bud-swell period), as branches will have really hardened over the winter. New shoots predominantly grow straight up. Do not allow strong shoots to remain vertical for over 1 growing season (except in the apex where they should be pinched in spring and pruned back in fall or winter, or except to use as a sacrifice), or they could easily develop into water sprouts/suckers. Either wire the shoots horizontally, or remove them, which brings us to . . .

Branch Pruning-
Current years branches can be pruned (and sealed) in mid-fall (about 4 weeks before frost) if they are to be wired. Otherwise, prune branches in late winter. When pruning, make sure to leave at least 1 leaf node. If not, the branch will usually die back, and may develop a whorl of buds at its base. A bud whorl could be handy, but they are not always reliable. (Note: pruning = removing a hardened branch/shoot, pinching = nipping the end of soft new growth)

Pinching (I think this is what Judy was refering to)-
Pinch new shoots when they have reached about 1" in length. DO NOT pinch or trim new shoots after they have gone over 1" (unless you are totally removing it), or there is a high risk that fruiting spurs will not develop on that branch. Use pinching to balance the vigor between the top and bottom branches. Stagger pinching over a few weeks, beginning with the apex (this is how the plants grow naturally anyway). Not every shoot will need to be pinched, bottom shoots may not need to be pinched at all. With experience, you'll be able to judge which shoots need pinching by how quickly they develop. Again, pinch any new shoots when they are about 1" long, and then let them grow for the remainder of the season. Do not pinch shoots more than once, and do not pinch or trim shoots over 1" until after the growing season.

You have some nice movement in your trunk, Catfish, but not a lot of taper, which is typical in apples. To get some thickening, you can let the shoots on the lower trunk extend until they start to harden at their base. But don't let those shoots harden, because then you'll get ugly scarring. While you are developing the branches, I recommend not letting your tree fruit. Just remove the flowers as they fade. Watch for fungal problems when it's hot. And on and on . . .

Crabapples are high maintenance and take a lot more dilligence than most other species. But with patience and hard work, you can have a spectacular tree, with few rivals in the bonsai world. Good luck! PM me any time.

 

[Kiani]

Thanks for the vote of confidence Judy. Developing branches slowly, IMO, is the best way to go with crabs. The problem with apples is that they don't ramify well, nothing like a maple or elm, kind of like a Japanese quince. So in order to get any character in the branches, you have to get your movement near the trunk, as opposed to near the ends like many other species.
Here is what I've learned about training crabapple branches (this is for my climate, I have no idea how they might react in other parts of the country, especially fall pruning in colder climates):

Wiring-
Branches become very brittle often in less than a year, so to get major bends, wire new branches in early summer when they are semi-hard. To put in subtle movement, you can wire in the fall immediately after leaf drop. Wire should be removed in late winter (around bud-swell period), as branches will have really hardened over the winter. New shoots predominantly grow straight up. Do not allow strong shoots to remain vertical for over 1 growing season (except in the apex where they should be pinched in spring and pruned back in fall or winter, or except to use as a sacrifice), or they could easily develop into water sprouts/suckers. Either wire the shoots horizontally, or remove them, which brings us to . . .

Branch Pruning-
Current years branches can be pruned (and sealed) in mid-fall (about 4 weeks before frost) if they are to be wired. Otherwise, prune branches in late winter. When pruning, make sure to leave at least 1 leaf node. If not, the branch will usually die back, and may develop a whorl of buds at its base. A bud whorl could be handy, but they are not always reliable. (Note: pruning = removing a hardened branch/shoot, pinching = nipping the end of soft new growth)

Pinching (I think this is what Judy was refering to)-
Pinch new shoots when they have reached about 1" in length. DO NOT pinch or trim new shoots after they have gone over 1" (unless you are totally removing it), or there is a high risk that fruiting spurs will not develop on that branch. Use pinching to balance the vigor between the top and bottom branches. Stagger pinching over a few weeks, beginning with the apex (this is how the plants grow naturally anyway). Not every shoot will need to be pinched, bottom shoots may not need to be pinched at all. With experience, you'll be able to judge which shoots need pinching by how quickly they develop. Again, pinch any new shoots when they are about 1" long, and then let them grow for the remainder of the season. Do not pinch shoots more than once, and do not pinch or trim shoots over 1" until after the growing season.

You have some nice movement in your trunk, Catfish, but not a lot of taper, which is typical in apples. To get some thickening, you can let the shoots on the lower trunk extend until they start to harden at their base. But don't let those shoots harden, because then you'll get ugly scarring. While you are developing the branches, I recommend not letting your tree fruit. Just remove the flowers as they fade. Watch for fungal problems when it's hot. And on and on . . .

Crabapples are high maintenance and take a lot more dilligence than most other species. But with patience and hard work, you can have a spectacular tree, with few rivals in the bonsai world. Good luck! PM me any time.

You give great crabapple advice

Thanks

 

[catfish chapstick]

Thanks for the vote of confidence Judy. Developing branches slowly, IMO, is the best way to go with crabs. The problem with apples is that they don't ramify well, nothing like a maple or elm, kind of like a Japanese quince. So in order to get any character in the branches, you have to get your movement near the trunk, as opposed to near the ends like many other species.
Here is what I've learned about training crabapple branches (this is for my climate, I have no idea how they might react in other parts of the country, especially fall pruning in colder climates):

Wiring-
Branches become very brittle often in less than a year, so to get major bends, wire new branches in early summer when they are semi-hard. To put in subtle movement, you can wire in the fall immediately after leaf drop. Wire should be removed in late winter (around bud-swell period), as branches will have really hardened over the winter. New shoots predominantly grow straight up. Do not allow strong shoots to remain vertical for over 1 growing season (except in the apex where they should be pinched in spring and pruned back in fall or winter, or except to use as a sacrifice), or they could easily develop into water sprouts/suckers. Either wire the shoots horizontally, or remove them, which brings us to . . .

Branch Pruning-
Current years branches can be pruned (and sealed) in mid-fall (about 4 weeks before frost) if they are to be wired. Otherwise, prune branches in late winter. When pruning, make sure to leave at least 1 leaf node. If not, the branch will usually die back, and may develop a whorl of buds at its base. A bud whorl could be handy, but they are not always reliable. (Note: pruning = removing a hardened branch/shoot, pinching = nipping the end of soft new growth)

Pinching (I think this is what Judy was refering to)-
Pinch new shoots when they have reached about 1" in length. DO NOT pinch or trim new shoots after they have gone over 1" (unless you are totally removing it), or there is a high risk that fruiting spurs will not develop on that branch. Use pinching to balance the vigor between the top and bottom branches. Stagger pinching over a few weeks, beginning with the apex (this is how the plants grow naturally anyway). Not every shoot will need to be pinched, bottom shoots may not need to be pinched at all. With experience, you'll be able to judge which shoots need pinching by how quickly they develop. Again, pinch any new shoots when they are about 1" long, and then let them grow for the remainder of the season. Do not pinch shoots more than once, and do not pinch or trim shoots over 1" until after the growing season.

You have some nice movement in your trunk, Catfish, but not a lot of taper, which is typical in apples. To get some thickening, you can let the shoots on the lower trunk extend until they start to harden at their base. But don't let those shoots harden, because then you'll get ugly scarring. While you are developing the branches, I recommend not letting your tree fruit. Just remove the flowers as they fade. Watch for fungal problems when it's hot. And on and on . . .

Crabapples are high maintenance and take a lot more dilligence than most other species. But with patience and hard work, you can have a spectacular tree, with few rivals in the bonsai world. Good luck! PM me any time.

wow, thankyou for all the information. that really helps. i had planned on just letting it grow and not touching it and then wiring the new growth, but that sounds like it might be the opposite of what you mean by building the branches slowly. what i had thought was that i'd like to see it with a bigger canopy and, in the future when the branches thicken up, cut it back hard and start over. sometimes i also think about layering off the top... not sure

 

[catfish chapstick]

update

i'll be planting this in the ground to thicken up. I hope to develope some better nebari