Collected Ligustrum sinensis

[small trees]

I had a day off today, so I headed out into my nearby forest to see if I could find a decent tree to collect. Here is one that I got. This thread ( http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?10480-Need-help-identifying-this-is-embarrassing-lol ) inspired me to go look for one of this species. I collected this with the intention of making a formal upright, and I was looking for a tree that had a muscular feel with some character. My eye still needs a lot of work, so I am posting this here to see how well you guys thing I met my above criteria. I didn't bother to take 45 degree pictures since light was starting to run low.





Also, I saw this while I was out. Anyone want to hypothesize on what happened here? Not pictured completely is a dead tree that fell over, across a creek and into the picture that you see. It looks like the one coming from the ground fused with the dead tree, but the fusion is so complete that I can't seem to differentiate one tree from the other.

 

[small trees]

I did some repotting/shuffling around of stuff today and moved this one and its little brother to the front porch so it will only get afternoon sun. I had it in a similar place, but I think that the pot will get a little more sun/heat this way and help keep the roots from being too wet. I have to use a regular potting soil mix with added perlite right now because I can't find turface/lava rock/river sand anywhere around here. I may go to the local baseball field and ask the coach if he could order or sell me a bag. I have used the oil spill cleanup stuff a little and it is okay, but I don't care for it too much.

 

[Poink88]

I like the first one but not too sure about the 2nd. Wait and see where you will get some growth before you plan any design. I personally don't think formal upright is the style for this tree stump though.

They are very hardy and should be sprouting soon.

Good luck!

 

[small trees]

I like the first one but not too sure about the 2nd. Wait and see where you will get some growth before you plan any design. I personally don't think formal upright is the style for this tree stump though.

They are very hardy and should be sprouting soon.

Good luck!

What would you envision for the tree? I collected a smaller one as well but the root system was not nearly as strong so I am going to wait to post pictures of it until I know it will survive. I just thought the second group of pictures was a neat thing.

 

[Poink88]

Depending on the growth...very likely an informal upright IMHO. Remember, you have big chop at the back to address later.

 

[small trees]

Very true. I will say then that I would like it to become a formal upright, but it definitely depends on the bud breakage and just how the tree wants to grow in general. I'm on my phone, so if you don't know I'll search later, but does this species respond well to thread grafts for branches?

 

[Poink88]

Sorry, I do not know. Based on what little I've seen though, it may not be. They do throw lots of buds...top to bottom so I see no reason why you would need to do that. My problem on mine is removing very determined suckers!!!

By the way, mine is Japonicum but read they are practically the same (care and growth wise).

 

[small trees]

I know they are very hearty. They comprise probably 75% of the population of my nearby forest, competing with tulip poplar, a few oak, sweetgum, pine, and mimosa. I'll probably be posting a lot of pictures as the buds start popping and as the tree goes to get input. Like I said in the OP, I need input to perform a sort of self-check to make sure what I am seeing or envisioning is the correct thing. I know that rules can be broken (and there is a good thread about that right now) but I feel that I need to learn the rules before I can break them effectively.


Care to share any pics of yours? Or was yours the thread I referenced in the OP? Hmm.. let me go look!

 

[Poink88]

Here is mine 1.5 months after collection. It is currently looking like a green ball.

View attachment 32620 View attachment 32621

 

[berobinson82]

I dug up a hornbeam similar to this tree's dimension recently. I gave it a V-notch at the top to try and encourage branching that would be suitable for a broom while reducing swelling (inverse taper). My tree is as raw as yours is though, YMMV. I usually chop them all flat.

http://www.bonsaiprimer.com/styles/broom/broom.html

Just an idea on how to deal with what I imagine is a gnarly scar.

May I ask you; what benefit does chopping the tree at an angle offer you? I read a few comments on this board that suggested cutting it flat across until you see where the buds pop. It allowed more options. I saw that same suggestion elsewhere and wanted to share the link I had saved.

Again, YMMV.

http://bonsaijournal.com/beginners-trunk-chop-101.php

 

[Poink88]

I agree that chopping flat gives you more options. That said, chopping at an angle forces the tree (if apically dominant) to channel energy that way. If there is no node there though, it may be for nothing. It is a gamble.

 

[rockm]

IMO, that trunk is not a real good candidate for a formal upright, especially as it has been chopped. It will take an extremely long time (even if it is a fast-growing privet) to regrow a convicing leader to match the trunk diameter. It's also not a conifer, which the formal upright style is best (and probably only) suited for. Deciduous trees usually have to be forced into that style and wind up looking odd and contrived.

It IS an excellent candidate for a low-growing broom (ish) style, however, even with the slant top, which can be hollowed a bit into a concave. Initial straight cuts are usually best. Going with a slant cut right off the bat REQUIRES the tree to push a new bud exactly at the apex of the cut you've made. Trees rarely follow directions ;-) What usually happens is you get a bud that's off by inches, or a lot of inches, or on the opposite side of the cut, which can force another reduction to accommodate it.

With a straight cut, you get more surface area to work with and adjust for where the tree wants to grow...

 

[small trees]

You live and learn. I am a big fan of BVF's broom style hawthorne. I usually think of it as an 'oak style' as that is the tree that I most commonly see displaying that form in nature. I would love to try to emulate it with this tree. What do you mean with the concave comment? I am a bit confused on what you mean there. The last post on the previous page mentioned a link that showed a v cut, which I know is popular with broom styles.


edit: This one:

http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?5761-Collected-Hawthorn-History

 

[Poink88]

I will only do the V notch if there are existing/established branches already. As mentioned, you don't know where you will get sprouts so V notch won't really help in your case.

Stick with flat cut.

 

[rockm]

Basically a trunk aimed for a broomish style is chopped and the initial cut is carved into a slight concave dish to allow for the callus tissue that will form as the tree heals the cut. Without the bit of hollowing out, you can get a lumpy, ugly transition, especially on fast-growing species.

 

[small trees]

I will only do the V notch if there are existing/established branches already. As mentioned, you don't know where you will get sprouts so V notch won't really help in your case.

Stick with flat cut.

I might have to make another cut then. I'll wait and see how where the buds pop.

Basically a trunk aimed for a broomish style is chopped and the initial cut is carved into a slight concave dish to allow for the callus tissue that will form as the tree heals the cut. Without the bit of hollowing out, you can get a lumpy, ugly transition, especially on fast-growing species.

Should this be done immediately? I understand what you mean now though.

 

[Poink88]

I won't risk disturbing/damaging any fine roots you have. I'll leave the tree as-is now and do the chop, carving, etc. later. This tree don't heal fast anyway, if ever just treat it so the cut won't rot. JMHO.

 

[berobinson82]

You didn't answer my first question so I doubt this one matters:

What kind of soil are you using?

 

[small trees]

You didn't answer my first question

what benefit does chopping the tree at an angle offer you?

chopping at an angle forces the tree (if apically dominant) to channel energy that way. If there is no node there though, it may be for nothing. It is a gamble.

What usually happens is you get a bud that's off by inches, or a lot of inches, or on the opposite side of the cut, which can force another reduction to accommodate it.

With a straight cut, you get more surface area to work with and adjust for where the tree wants to grow...

You live and learn.

What kind of soil are you using?

I have to use a regular potting soil mix with added perlite right now because I can't find turface/lava rock/river sand anywhere around here. I may go to the local baseball field and ask the coach if he could order or sell me a bag. I have used the oil spill cleanup stuff a little and it is okay, but I don't care for it too much.

See above.

edit: not trying to sound short. Just found it easier to multiquote to respond. Others answered the first question and enlightened me in the process. The second one I answered in my second post I think. An addendum to the last quote up there: I have also tried cat litter but couldn't find high-fired clay, so the kind I bought didnt hold up well at all.

 

[small trees]

A small update: This one (and a smaller one that I collected) are growing rapidly. I didn't post pictures of the smaller tree in the OP because it had almost no feeder roots at the time of collection and I didn't expect it to live. Anyway, here are a few quick pics. With the broom style in mind, I am trying to decide which branches are definite keepers and which can be removed. So far, all I have done is remove multiple branches that are emerging from the same place, saving one.