Collecting a large laceleaf j maple

[Arlithrien]

I'll be collecting this tree in a few days. The owner said it's roughly 4.5ft tall, 8ft wide with a 6 inch trunk at the base.

The tree is past peak fall color, so it should be at or near dormancy. I'm expecting to need to trim the roots substantially, so I brought some cut sealant spray. I plan to soak the rootball and wrap it in a burlap blanket for transportation.

The tree will probably be potted. I have two containers one is deep and one is wide. Which one I use depends on the shape of the rootball.

Is there anything else I should be taking into consideration to maximize the chance of survival?

 

[Hack Yeah!]

Are you putting it in your landscape or planning bonsai? I dug a similar one a few years ago in early spring. I just collected the largest rootball me and brother in law could lift, put right back in the ground and it didn't skip a beat

I don't think you need to seal the roots

 

[Arlithrien]

Are you putting it in your landscape or planning bonsai? I dug a similar one a few years ago in early spring. I just collected the largest rootball me and brother in law could lift, put right back in the ground and it didn't skip a beat

I don't think you need to seal the roots

Ideally I would like to bonsai the tree but if the nebari/taper are not ideal, it will be better as a landscape tree. Either way it's going to be potted for at least one season until I can find a spot where it will survive the GA summer sun.

Here's my inspiration for bonsai.

 

[NOZZLE HEAD]

I almost only work with Japanese maples, and they transplant well any time of year from the landscape in the PNW.
TIPS
Prune it mildly when you remove it from the earth, so you can balance the root to shoot ratio.

Place it in as big a pot as you can for a year to acclimatize it to pot culture before you do any severe root reduction.

I have never lost an Acer palmatum when I have followed that protocol, but I have when I didn’t.

 

[Arlithrien]

I almost only work with Japanese maples, and they transplant well any time of year from the landscape in the PNW.
TIPS
Prune it mildly when you remove it from the earth, so you can balance the root to shoot ratio.

Place it in as big a pot as you can for a year to acclimatize it to pot culture before you do any severe root reduction.

I have never lost an Acer palmatum when I have followed that protocol, but I have when I didn’t.

What size rootball would you expect from a tree of this size? I have a rectangular mixing tub that is 3ftx2ft but only 8in deep. I also have a round tub that is 2ft in diameter and probably 2ft deep.

 

[KLSbonsai]

@Arlithrien, a few tips on digging the tree. Japanese maples transplant pretty easy. My company digs and moves specimen size trees all year in and around Atlanta. Definitely no need for sealant on the cut roots. We also never prune anything off the canopy as that is why we buy and sale old specimens. You can take a balling twine (sisal twine) to group the branches and wrap them into clusters to access the area for digging. With the size of the tree you gave we would dig a rootball 28-30" in diameter and 18-24" deep. What is your plan to get tree up and out, I ask because I usually have a 4 man crew and a skid steer? You can go a little smaller on the rootball ball this time of year but it will still be a heavy tree. Here are a couple of pics of a few recent moves. The last pic was dug with larger root ball, due to being moved in August with root pruning prior to the move. It is a 28x30 canopy with a 22" base. The tree never missed a beat after the move.

 

[Arlithrien]

@Arlithrien, a few tips on digging the tree. Japanese maples transplant pretty easy. My company digs and moves specimen size trees all year in and around Atlanta. Definitely no need for sealant on the cut roots. We also never prune anything off the canopy as that is why we buy and sale old specimens. You can take a balling twine (sisal twine) to group the branches and wrap them into clusters to access the area for digging. With the size of the tree you gave we would dig a rootball 28-30" in diameter and 18-24" deep. What is your plan to get tree up and out, I ask because I usually have a 4 man crew and a skid steer? You can go a little smaller on the rootball ball this time of year but it will still be a heavy tree. Here are a couple of pics of a few recent moves. The last pic was dug with larger root ball, due to being moved in August with root pruning prior to the move. It is a 28x30 canopy with a 22" base. The tree never missed a beat after the move.

We dont have any heavy machinery. Just two people and regular tools. My plan would be to thin the tree as much as necessary to get it out by hand. Pruning larger roots if possible.

 

[KLSbonsai]

We dont have any heavy machinery. Just two people and regular tools. My plan would be to thin the tree as much as necessary to get it out by hand. Pruning larger roots if possible.

Just for some clarity of the thing of the branches to give you access I found a pic from a nursery that we work with that shows this. Sorry for the crappy pic as it was taking a pic from the slide slow on their website. Good luck on the dig, Japanese maples are tough so heavy pruning of the roots this time of year shouldn't be bad.

 

[Arlithrien]

Well.. It was bigger than I thought. But we got it out.

 

[Arlithrien]

Roots were also much more shallow than I was expecting. The first 2" below the ground was a compact mat of feeder roots and its rootball never went deeper than 12". Once we dug a trench around it, it removed very easily. Not physically though, physically it was extremely heavy.

I'll have to trim down the roots to approx 3' by 2' to fit into my cement mixing tub. The first 2" of soil have a dense mat of fine roots.

 

[Arlithrien]

One question, at what point do I replace the ground soil with bonsai substrate? Planning to pot it up tomorrow and I feel like it might do best staying in its native soil for a year to get acclimated to life in a pot.

Part of me wants to throw some coarse bonsai mix in and see if it can handle it.

 

[Arlithrien]

Here's the finished product. I surrounded the rootball in a mix of pumice and granite chips. Then I covered the mix with a mulch of pine cones.

The tree took a lot of abuse during the transplant. The rootball was reduced significantly. Hopefully it is able to recover when it wakes up in the spring.

 

[0soyoung]

In your zone, I doubt you need to worry about protecting the roots. The pot could just sit on the ground and likely be just fine. OR, am I mistaken and that is a shallow round pot not a conventional big black plastic nursery pot that is partially buried? If it is buried, are you sure the pot will drain, buried like that? This can be a good way to drown a tree in a rainy winter.

It would handle being in a bonsai substrate simply because of the air-filled porosity. You likely could have washed away the old soil, effectively doing a full bare root repot. However, the tree would require being rigidly secured to the pot. Else it would easily move around in the pot = a little jostling by the wind or other accidental movement could kill it. With the roots still 'bound' in the soil that they've been in for some time, this isn't as much of a worry. Nevertheless, I'm concerned.

I'm not sure what the difference would be, in your climate, to just do the full bare root repot now as opposed to later in the winter/spring (as buds swell). Roots will grow as long as they are warmer than 40F. Either time, you will need to rigidly secure the tree to the pot of bonsai substrate after the bare rooting. You cannot simply pot it in the pot. Any movement of the tree, by an accidental bump or wind, will move the roots in the substrate and damages the growing root tips - once or twice and it can be fatal.

I really don't see anything securing the tree to the pot in the pix. A few wire guys between the pot lip and the major branches could do the job. There are other ways, of course, but that tree really should be secured to the pot in some fashion, IMHO.

 

[Arlithrien]

In your zone, I doubt you need to worry about protecting the roots. The pot could just sit on the ground and likely be just fine. OR, am I mistaken and that is a shallow round pot not a conventional big black plastic nursery pot that is partially buried? If it is buried, are you sure the pot will drain, buried like that? This can be a good way to drown a tree in a rainy winter.

It would handle being in a bonsai substrate simply because of the air-filled porosity. You likely could have washed away the old soil, effectively doing a full bare root repot. However, the tree would require being rigidly secured to the pot. Else it would easily move around in the pot = a little jostling by the wind or other accidental movement could kill it. With the roots still 'bound' in the soil that they've been in for some time, this isn't as much of a worry. Nevertheless, I'm concerned.

I'm not sure what the difference would be, in your climate, to just do the full bare root repot now as opposed to later in the winter/spring (as buds swell). Roots will grow as long as they are warmer than 40F. Either time, you will need to rigidly secure the tree to the pot of bonsai substrate after the bare rooting. You cannot simply pot it in the pot. Any movement of the tree, by an accidental bump or wind, will move the roots in the substrate and damages the growing root tips - once or twice and it can be fatal.

I really don't see anything securing the tree to the pot in the pix. A few wire guys between the pot lip and the major branches could do the job. There are other ways, of course, but that tree really should be secured to the pot in some fashion, IMHO.

It is in a 35 gallon pond liner with holes drilled in the bottom. It is not buried but it is surrounded by a pile of leaves giving the appearance. However the bottom of the "pot" is sitting flush with the ground. I'm hoping the water is able to drain into the dirt underneath the pot, rather than water piling up at the bottom of the inside of the pot.

The bottom of the pot is filled with a 1" layer of coarse pumice. Then ~5" of bonsai substrate that the rootball is resting on. The reason for this is because the pond liner has three "shelves" meant to hold water plants. I had to rest the rootball on top of the shelves, so I filled the liner up with substrate just above the shelves so the rootball was resting on the substrate instead. In the pic below, the substrate height that the rootball is on is denoted by white lines and red dots represent drainage holes.



I washed away as much soil as I cool, but the rootball is extremely dense and the surface roots are woven around layers of large pinebark chips.

As for wind, this tree seems anchored by its own weight. I could barely lift it in the pot after root reduction. I'd estimate its at least 200lbs without substrate. It's also tucked between a house, a fence and woods so it has barriers from wind. But even so, the small chance that a freak windstorm or a wild animal comes through and bumps it, is enough of a reason for me to tie it down.

 

[leatherback]

Have you decided that this becomes a bonsai?

I personally would cut to intended size + a bit for die-back.
tbh, I would also have considered a basic clean-up of the rootball.

The reason is, is that the tree wuill never has as many stored resources again as it has now. Being fairly assertive in trimming and sorting out the roots will be a small investment for the tree to overcome now. You are mid winter, trees will wake up in a few weeks I presume in your whereabouts. Use all that stored energy.

Not the massive size you are showing here, but a similar project I took on last winter:

Late October 2019:

November2019:


May 2020

 

[AlainK]

I'm hoping the water is able to drain into the dirt underneath the pot, rather than water piling up at the bottom of the inside of the pot.

Maybe you could put the pot on two parallel 1 inch wood sticks...

 

[Arlithrien]

Have you decided that this becomes a bonsai?

I personally would cut to intended size + a bit for die-back.
tbh, I would also have considered a basic clean-up of the rootball.

The reason is, is that the tree wuill never has as many stored resources again as it has now. Being fairly assertive in trimming and sorting out the roots will be a small investment for the tree to overcome now. You are mid winter, trees will wake up in a few weeks I presume in your whereabouts. Use all that stored energy.

Not the massive size you are showing here, but a similar project I took on last winter:

Late October 2019:
View attachment 345465
November2019:
View attachment 345466View attachment 345467View attachment 345468

May 2020
View attachment 345469

I hate to disappoint on a bonsai forum, but the tree ended up being too large and too beautiful in its natural state to be cut down into a bonsai. I could simply not do it justice. It will remain a garden tree.

 

[AlainK]

I hate to disappoint on a bonsai forum, but the tree ended up being too large and too beautiful in its natural state to be cut down into a bonsai. I could simply not do it justice. It will remain a garden tree.

Well, well, well...

I think one of the main problems is the size, but not only. A laceleaf maple is hard to design as a "bonsai", and I tend to agree with Arliethrien's conclusion, I would train it as a "niwaki", or a "patio tree" rather than as a bonsai.

This being said, whatever your final project, I wish you success.

 

[leatherback]

It will remain a garden tree.

If you do not intent to keep it potted up in the long run (?) why not plant it now?

 

[Arlithrien]

If you do not intent to keep it potted up in the long run (?) why not plant it now?

A few reasons. First, I currently live in central FL where the tree could not survive so it is temporarily staying on a relatives property in GA (zone 8).

Second, even in GA the summer sun is brutal on Japanese maples. I planted a normal green palmatum last year in a place that seemed shady in the winter, but come summer the sun was able to fry it.