Collecting California Junipers

Tona

Shohin
Messages
387
Reaction score
128
Location
Santa Clarita, California
USDA Zone
9
Where can California Junipers be found that it is legal to collect them? I am in the Santa Clarita area.
 

alonsou

Mame
Messages
126
Reaction score
7
Location
Norwalk, CA
USDA Zone
10a
I just know of some place somewhere in the middle of Jawbone Canyon in the Mojave Desert, still its private land and as far as I know the owner don't want any more collections to be done on his property (correct me if I'm wrong).

If you are part of a Bonsai club, ask if they have some kind of collecting trips, I think thats your best bet.

I recently was the lucky winner at the X-mas party raffle of my Bonsai Club, a beautiful CJ collected by Harry Hirao some years ago. So again, being part of a Bonsai club could be your best option.

Other than the above information I'm clueless about any other option you may have
 
Last edited:

Redwood Ryan

Masterpiece
Messages
4,421
Reaction score
2,302
Location
Virginia
USDA Zone
7A
I just know of some place somewhere in the middle of Jawbone Canyon in the Mojave Desert, still its private land and as far as I know the owner don't want any more collections to be done on his property (correct me if I'm wrong).

If you are part of a Bonsai club, ask if they have some kind of collecting trips, I think thats your best bet.

I recently was the lucky winner at the X-mas party raffle of my Bonsai Club, a beautiful CJ collected by Harry Hirao some years ago. So again, being part of a Bonsai club could be your best option.

Other than the above information I'm clueless about any other option you may have


The link you provided goes to an elm, by the way.
 

jk_lewis

Masterpiece
Messages
3,820
Reaction score
1,109
Location
Western NC
USDA Zone
7-8
I suspect that a public forum is the last place anyone would (or should) say where a good spot was for collecting anything. Wherever it was would be quickly denuded (collected with or without permission) and so many bonsai collectors being what they are, the area would be left an unholy mess. Those who collect tend to be very closed mouthed about the best spots.
 

alonsou

Mame
Messages
126
Reaction score
7
Location
Norwalk, CA
USDA Zone
10a
I suspect that a public forum is the last place anyone would (or should) say where a good spot was for collecting anything. Wherever it was would be quickly denuded (collected with or without permission) and so many bonsai collectors being what they are, the area would be left an unholy mess. Those who collect tend to be very closed mouthed about the best spots.


jkl

You are right, I hope nobody disclose where is the exact spot for collecting. :D

There's a very select number of individuals who know the exact location of the spot, I mean, Jawbone Canyon its over 7000 acres of land (close to 11~12 square miles of terrain) good luck looking for the spot by yourself.

Just do a quick Google search, and you will find no more information than what I said before, that's how closed mouthed collectors are ;)
 

rockm

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
9,684
Reaction score
12,391
Location
Fairfax Va.
USDA Zone
7
As a collector, I would not give up locations of the best stuff. I worked hard to find them, ticks, skeeters, landowner contacts are part of the process and sweat equity of collecting. If you want good collected trees, they're not gonna fall in your lap (well, they sometimes do, but that's a very very rare thing). You gotta do the legwork or help another collector do the legwork.
 
Messages
152
Reaction score
1,223
Finding California Junipers are getting harder and harder specially if you don't know the right people to hang out with. Alonsou, you're on the right club already as a member of Kofu Kai. Try taking lessons from him at his house and i guarantee you, he will take you to his secret place. :D
 

Attachments

  • om 010a.jpg
    om 010a.jpg
    103.6 KB · Views: 179
  • ww 053ax.jpg
    ww 053ax.jpg
    135.4 KB · Views: 179
  • ss 254a.jpg
    ss 254a.jpg
    54 KB · Views: 194

Smoke

Ignore-Amus
Messages
11,563
Reaction score
19,745
Location
Fresno, CA
USDA Zone
9
Here is the exact spot.


ha ha ha!
 

Attachments

  • mojavesatt.jpg
    mojavesatt.jpg
    46 KB · Views: 130
  • mojavesatred.JPG
    mojavesatred.JPG
    41.5 KB · Views: 126
  • DSCF0606.JPG
    DSCF0606.JPG
    39.8 KB · Views: 134
  • DSCF0604.JPG
    DSCF0604.JPG
    31.2 KB · Views: 129

jk_lewis

Masterpiece
Messages
3,820
Reaction score
1,109
Location
Western NC
USDA Zone
7-8
I sure hope there were 7 of you on that dig, and that batch of trees weren't representing 2 or 3 very piggy collectors. In any case, it won't be long before these trees are as scarce in California as Shimpaku are in Japan today.
 

Smoke

Ignore-Amus
Messages
11,563
Reaction score
19,745
Location
Fresno, CA
USDA Zone
9
I sure hope there were 7 of you on that dig, and that batch of trees weren't representing 2 or 3 very piggy collectors. In any case, it won't be long before these trees are as scarce in California as Shimpaku are in Japan today.

See that big juniper in the picture, thats a large as a volkswagon bus or larger. See those green spots in the sat. shot, those are junipers like that in the picture. That satt shot covers about a 1/4 square mile. There are about 20,000 square miles or more of junipers there. Each square mile contains as many as 5000 junipers. Of those 5000 maybe 5 percent are collectable. This is only one ridge, this line of junipers continues on the entire east side of the range for the complete south-north run of the state.

I don't think junipers are endangered in the least out there. Maybe the collectable ones, but there are literally millions of junipers that will be there far after man has beed expelled from this planet.

Thanks though, your heart is in the right place.
 

jk_lewis

Masterpiece
Messages
3,820
Reaction score
1,109
Location
Western NC
USDA Zone
7-8
I don't think junipers are endangered in the least out there. Maybe the collectable ones, but there are literally millions of junipers that will be there far after man has been expelled from this planet.


I'm not intending to say any more after this, but I'm sure that's what they said in Japan, too; and what orchid and bromilliad collectors in Florida said 50 years ago.

And, though I won't be around to collect that bet, as a one-time ecologist I can just about guarantee that junipers are more sensitive to environmental changes than humans are. They, after all, can't walk away and don't have a technology to guarantee their survival even in worsening environmental conditions like we do.
 

Jonas

Seed
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
I don't think junipers are endangered in the least out there. Maybe the collectable ones, but there are literally millions of junipers that will be there far after man has beed expelled from this planet.

Thanks though, your heart is in the right place.

I'm not intending to say any more after this, but I'm sure that's what they said in Japan, too; and what orchid and bromilliad collectors in Florida said 50 years ago.

And, though I won't be around to collect that bet, as a one-time ecologist I can just about guarantee that junipers are more sensitive to environmental changes than humans are. They, after all, can't walk away and don't have a technology to guarantee their survival even in worsening environmental conditions like we do.

In this I agree with JKL, as bonsai beginner, I really don't understand the applause when someone retrieves a tree from the wild and creates a marvellous bonsai. I see the beauty of those trees but on the other hand I wonder how long this practice will last... Thinking about even more movable inhabitants of earth, elephants, tigers etc. I don't want to kick to someones sheens but just thinking about the future; could it end up with garden trees?
 

Brian Van Fleet

Pretty Fly for a Bonsai Guy
Messages
11,718
Reaction score
31,513
Location
B’ham, AL
USDA Zone
8A
...as bonsai beginner, I really don't understand the applause when someone retrieves a tree from the wild and creates a marvellous bonsai.

This perspective will likely change as your experience with bonsai increases. I can assure you, over time, the bonsai that leave the greatest impression on you will not have come from Home Depot.

Al points out, this is a BIG world, relative to the flora. Responsible collecting can improve the quality of bonsai with really an unnoticeable effect on the environment (especially if the tree continues to live). Go collecting once and you'll immediately be awestruck with the sheer quantity of trees, and then, quickly jerked back to the reality of how few are actually collectible.

Add to this the tiny number of people who actually attempt collecting. I have noticed by the lack of bonsai super-stores on every corner, that we're a pretty small group, and even within it, I bet half of us don't collect yamadori.

When I go collecting and dig a few trees, the closest comparison to the impact on the area would be like coming home from the beach and shaking the sand out of your towel.
 

milehigh_7

Mister 500,000
Messages
4,581
Reaction score
5,309
Location
Chandler, AZ
USDA Zone
Hot
Here is where I grew up. There are about 100 people that live in this chunk of land. Every one of these trees that you see is either RMJ, Ponderosa or Pinyon all good trees for bonsai. I have access to hundreds of such chunks just in my home state.

However, I have neither the know-how or the time to collect them so I don't.
 

Attachments

  • trees.jpg
    trees.jpg
    185.4 KB · Views: 115

Smoke

Ignore-Amus
Messages
11,563
Reaction score
19,745
Location
Fresno, CA
USDA Zone
9
In this I agree with JKL, as bonsai beginner, I really don't understand the applause when someone retrieves a tree from the wild and creates a marvellous bonsai. I see the beauty of those trees but on the other hand I wonder how long this practice will last... Thinking about even more movable inhabitants of earth, elephants, tigers etc. I don't want to kick to someones sheens but just thinking about the future; could it end up with garden trees?

Where do you think garden trees came from?
 

Attila Soos

Omono
Messages
1,804
Reaction score
33
Location
Los Angeles (Altadena), CA
USDA Zone
9
Let's do some math here.

If one square mile has about 5000 junipers (reasonable estimate), and we have around 20,000 square miles of juniper land, that means 100 million junipers alltogether.

Let's say that from every 100 junipers, one single seed germinates and survives, every year. This would mean that one million new junipers are added to the 100 million population, every year.

So, theoretically, we could collect, clear, log, etc. one million junipers every year, without further shrinking the population.

The question is, how many junipers are collected in California, by bonsaists, every year? One thousand?, Ten thousand? One hundred thousand yamadori?
I say, definitely not one hundred thousand, and not even ten thousand. I would suggest, no more than five thousand (half of that, probably by Maria Capra and Harry Hirao :)).

If we assume that the population of junipers is not growing overall, that means that 995,000 junipers are killed every year by land developers and contractors. So, is it fair to blame the bonsaist, who take 0.5%, or the developers, who take 99.5%.

I am not saying that junipers will last forever. I am just saying that bonsaist are a truly insignificant quantity.

In Japan, collecting Junipers became a national obsession. A large portion of their nation was invoved in the bonsai trade, one way or another. Owning a beautiful collected shimpaku was a status symbol.
Here in California, 99.9% of the population never even heard of collecting junipers, never mind being involved in it. Bonsai is a very long way from becoming national obsession here in the US.

Of course there are other, much more sensitive ecosystems here in the US, where removing a few thousand individuals could affect the survival of a certain species. But that is NOT the California Juniper.

Another thing: removing the junipers is not the biggest threat to it's extinction. The biggest threat is removing the juniper habitat, so that there is no chance that a certain piece of land will ever grow junipers again. And bonsaists do not remove land, by collecting a few trees. The protection needs curb new urban developments, which is the real threat.
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

Top