Collecting Guidance - Conifers in general (Pinus Resinosa)

Brad in GR

Shohin
Messages
262
Reaction score
324
Location
West side of the Mitten
USDA Zone
6a
First time poster / long-time lurker; first off, grateful for this community. Most of my (still limited!) knowledge has come from threads linking to or outright explaining approaches to bonsai, specifically yamadori/collecting and species information. Thank you for existing!

Of the several trees I've collected this spring after digesting/studying up for the last 8 months or so, these two Red Pines (pinus resinosa) were collected yesterday. These are my first collected conifers. Both had healthy root systems. Followed conifer approach to aftercare; sphagnum moss/bagged, left as much native soil on roots as possible and into basin w/ conifer mix bonsai soil. One had a long tap root that I had to cut, the other had two smaller 'taps' that were just trimmed up a bit. One (as you'll see) I removed a bit of apex foilage, and both a couple of small prunes but for the most part, left what I could foliage-wise.

The guidance I'm looking for is related to aftercare: specifically temperatures - zone 6a (Grand Rapids, MI) - today we unfortunately have what looks like the last snow of the year. Temps are staying above freezing (33-40) at night. I know these still need sun, but any concerns with the now more exposed root system with some snow falling and 33-35 degrees next 24 hours? Looks like this will be our last major couple days of true cold during the day.

The plan for these fellas is to get them healthy in the pot for a season or two, and then consider placing into some raised beds I'm building for the field grow approach to thicken trunk and train for 3-5 years before re-digging and reducing again. I know that pinus resinosa has longer needles and thus would be suitable for larger bonsai.

Any help is appreciated!
 

Attachments

clem

Shohin
Messages
314
Reaction score
449
Location
France
hello. Did you fix your pines in the pot , in order that the roots won't move Inside soil ?
 

Potawatomi13

Masterpiece
Messages
3,506
Reaction score
2,247
Location
Eugene, OR
USDA Zone
8
Providing holes present for drainage leave alone/let grow this season. Just to keep alive now is number one priority. DO NOT BOTHER otherwise:eek:! Also elevate pot off flat surface so can drain;). If tree not tied down do not redo potting. Many years personally did not tie down trees/never killed one from this. Can do next time.

QUOTE[The plan for these fellas is to get them healthy in the pot for a season or two, and then consider placing into some raised beds I'm building for the field grow approach to thicken trunk and train for 3-5 years before re-digging and reducing again. I know that pinus resinosa has longer needles and thus would be suitable for larger bonsai.]QUOTE

Wise plan;)!
 

Wires_Guy_wires

Masterpiece
Messages
2,939
Reaction score
4,348
Location
Netherlands
Hmm I'm not in favor of pruning directly after collection, neither roots nor foliage.
As for temperatures, these haven't rooted deep yet in the wild, so I believe as long as they're still near their collection range, they'll make it. Additional protection wouldn't do much harm.
Good luck!
 

Brad in GR

Shohin
Messages
262
Reaction score
324
Location
West side of the Mitten
USDA Zone
6a
Providing holes present for drainage leave alone/let grow this season. Just to keep alive now is number one priority. DO NOT BOTHER otherwise:eek:! Also elevate pot off flat surface so can drain;). If tree not tied down do not redo potting. Many years personally did not tie down trees/never killed one from this. Can do next time.

QUOTE[The plan for these fellas is to get them healthy in the pot for a season or two, and then consider placing into some raised beds I'm building for the field grow approach to thicken trunk and train for 3-5 years before re-digging and reducing again. I know that pinus resinosa has longer needles and thus would be suitable for larger bonsai.]QUOTE

Wise plan;)!
Many thanks for the feedback! Drilled plenty of holes for drainage in my wash basins. Here's hoping they live.
 

Brad in GR

Shohin
Messages
262
Reaction score
324
Location
West side of the Mitten
USDA Zone
6a
Kick-start and update - both Pinus resinosa survived collection well.
These are my first collected conifers - as a result, I am hesitant to work on them. We are about a year later, both bounced back well, and I got back-budding on both and roots growing out the bottom of both containers.

I’d like to start wiring the one pictured - many buds emerged after collection along the main trunk and most branches. The minor trunk chop I performed at collection may have been partial reason. Lots of options.

@Leo in N E Illinois has indicated for his climate that wiring in winter (we are having days in the 40s/50s now but most nights still freezing) is still a safe time for conifers.
My question is, would you all or would you not wire now?

Additionally, there are many branches down low and future buds to choose from, and I am considering pruning a few of the smaller branches that I know do not have a future while keeping a sacrifice or 4.

Many years off of course - I will choose a future leader to develop slanting away from the movement of the main trunk and continue to keep the tree healthy. Style for informal upright eventually is my thought - there is also a branch underneath the slanted trunk that could serve as a semi cascade, many buds there as well. Cheers.
 

Attachments

BuckeyeOne

Shohin
Messages
382
Reaction score
300
Location
South Shore of Lake Erie
USDA Zone
6a
@Leo in N E Illinois has indicated for his climate that wiring in winter (we are having days in the 40s/50s now but most nights still freezing) is still a safe time for conifers.
My question is, would you all or would you not wire now?
If you're winter has been as mild as me in 6a, I'd wait 'til fall.
I wired a few junipers and conifers last spring and had some separation of the bark to wood. I might had been a little aggressive!!
I waited last fall/early winter and had a much easier time making some pretty severe bends.
Patience my son. Patience.
 

Brad in GR

Shohin
Messages
262
Reaction score
324
Location
West side of the Mitten
USDA Zone
6a
If you're winter has been as mild as me in 6a, I'd wait 'til fall.
I wired a few junipers and conifers last spring and had some separation of the bark to wood. I might had been a little aggressive!!
I waited last fall/early winter and had a much easier time making some pretty severe bends.
Patience my son. Patience.
Shall consider this. The smaller limbs are quite pliable as is 🤔
Appreciate the guidance.
I‘m thinking pruning to reduce to closer/in buds...
 

Wires_Guy_wires

Masterpiece
Messages
2,939
Reaction score
4,348
Location
Netherlands
I wire every time of the year. The bark slipping is a thing on junipers that you should take into account when wiring in spring and summer.
It happens on pines too, but it's way less of an issue if your wire is annealed well and if your wiring skills are up to par. My wiring skills suck, but I see slipped bark as characteristic battle scars. If you're not sure, just try a couple of insignificant branches and see how it goes.

I avoid wiring pines in spring mostly, but that's because I tend to knock off a lot of buds. I would save heavy bends for fall though.
 

Brad in GR

Shohin
Messages
262
Reaction score
324
Location
West side of the Mitten
USDA Zone
6a
I wire every time of the year. The bark slipping is a thing on junipers that you should take into account when wiring in spring and summer.
It happens on pines too, but it's way less of an issue if your wire is annealed well and if your wiring skills are up to par. My wiring skills suck, but I see slipped bark as characteristic battle scars. If you're not sure, just try a couple of insignificant branches and see how it goes.

I avoid wiring pines in spring mostly, but that's because I tend to knock off a lot of buds. I would save heavy bends for fall though.
thank you for the input as always! Collected these pines from Holland, MI (30 mins by car) - a large Dutch settlement - from my very Dutch grandparents property. Cheers.
 

Leo in N E Illinois

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
8,052
Reaction score
14,833
Location
on the IL-WI border, a mile from ''da Lake''
USDA Zone
5b
Shall consider this. The smaller limbs are quite pliable as is 🤔
Appreciate the guidance.
I‘m thinking pruning to reduce to closer/in buds...
I would hold off on significant pruning. All those wonderful little buds, are great, but leave them grow a second year. If you cut back branches to these tiny new buds, the buds will not be strong enough to pull enough sap to keep the buds and the branch alive. Wait until second year. The buds all will grow this year, next year they will be strong enough to support the branches, and keep the "life lines" to the roots alive.

You can prune a few branches you are certain you will not need in the future. But take off less than 20% of the total foliage. You don't have much foliage, so don't take off much.

Thinning buds. - Don't worry about creating inverse taper. At this point you are going to want to increase by at least half, the diameter of the trunk, or more. Which means if any inverse taper forms, you have plenty of time to correct it later.

Actually best is keep all the buds, all the shoots through this summer. Treat this tree more or less like a Scots pine, P. sylvestris. The reason to keep the buds and branches, is that the energy is distributed over the many buds. Your internodes will be shorter, your needles will be smaller. Then in late summer or autumn you can do your shoot and bud selection. If you reduce now, the buds and shoots will use the extra energy that is not going to the pruned off part to create long internodes and big needles.

Wiring can be done pretty much anytime. I usually avoid spring for the same reason wires guy does, knocking off buds. The cambium tearing loose is a spring & summer issue is real, but minor if you are careful.
 

Brad in GR

Shohin
Messages
262
Reaction score
324
Location
West side of the Mitten
USDA Zone
6a
I would hold off on significant pruning. All those wonderful little buds, are great, but leave them grow a second year. If you cut back branches to these tiny new buds, the buds will not be strong enough to pull enough sap to keep the buds and the branch alive. Wait until second year. The buds all will grow this year, next year they will be strong enough to support the branches, and keep the "life lines" to the roots alive.

You can prune a few branches you are certain you will not need in the future. But take off less than 20% of the total foliage. You don't have much foliage, so don't take off much.

Thinning buds. - Don't worry about creating inverse taper. At this point you are going to want to increase by at least half, the diameter of the trunk, or more. Which means if any inverse taper forms, you have plenty of time to correct it later.

Actually best is keep all the buds, all the shoots through this summer. Treat this tree more or less like a Scots pine, P. sylvestris. The reason to keep the buds and branches, is that the energy is distributed over the many buds. Your internodes will be shorter, your needles will be smaller. Then in late summer or autumn you can do your shoot and bud selection. If you reduce now, the buds and shoots will use the extra energy that is not going to the pruned off part to create long internodes and big needles.

Wiring can be done pretty much anytime. I usually avoid spring for the same reason wires guy does, knocking off buds. The cambium tearing loose is a spring & summer issue is real, but minor if you are careful.
Went lightly in wiring a couple of branches so far - those with few buds along the shoot and small in diameter - and only have removed 3 small shoots where I was concerned knobbing could occur down the road/would not be included long term.

thank you as always Leo! I really like the look of resinosa so far and hope the foliage pops this second year since collection.
 
Similar threads





Top Bottom