Collecting Hawthorn

[BobbyLane]

You dont always have to look for taper, you can make great bonsai from stumps with no taper, see Walter palls trees. In those cases you look for good bases, good, powerful nebari. low branches and subtrunks.

 

[Zelrod]

Very inspirational, BobbyLane!

 

[Javaman4373]

Harry harrington has quite a few hawthorn progressions, many of his trees were started from unassuming material


Caption reads:

"A side-by-side before and after of the same tree, a Hawthorn bonsai of mine. Pictured here in late 2002 after chopping but prior to collecting, and now, 20 years later.
Height 36”/91cm, bonsai pot made for the tree by Victor Harris of Erin Pottery."

Yes, very nice. The link I had in post #7 was to one of Harry Harrington's progressions. Amazing what can be done with the hawthorn species.

 

[Shibui]

Amazing what can be done with the hawthorn species.

and a fair bit of time!

Hawthorn down here are an invasive species so we can collect but need to examine many to find just a few with some potential and rarely any with all the features of great bonsai so we generally collect the best we can find then spend time regrowing roots, trunk or branching.
Some good bonsai can be developed from stumps with a little creative carving.
They will bud on very old wood so thick trunks can be chopped and will still grow back.
(European) hawthorn transplant very easily. Only need stubs of roots to transplant successfully. Can chop and transplant at the same time or chop and collect a year or 2 later after new shoots grow. (regrowth after chop in situ is likely to produce very strong new shoots that may not be suitable for bonsai use)

I have lost enthusiasm for air layering up in the top of a tree, as there is good movement, but little taper possible and there is a risk of falling going up a ladder in the woods to make the air layer

Glad to hear upper layer is now off the agenda. In my experience potential layers look great from a distance but less attractive as you get closer, even worse when they come off the tree after rooting and virtually useless after another year or 2.

 

[Javaman4373]

and a fair bit of time!

Hawthorn down here are an invasive species so we can collect but need to examine many to find just a few with some potential and rarely any with all the features of great bonsai so we generally collect the best we can find then spend time regrowing roots, trunk or branching.
Some good bonsai can be developed from stumps with a little creative carving.
They will bud on very old wood so thick trunks can be chopped and will still grow back.
(European) hawthorn transplant very easily. Only need stubs of roots to transplant successfully. Can chop and transplant at the same time or chop and collect a year or 2 later after new shoots grow. (regrowth after chop in situ is likely to produce very strong new shoots that may not be suitable for bonsai use)

Our species of hawthorn are considered invasive too, although we have worse invasive bushes and trees to deal with, e.g. Japanese honeysuckle. They have no value for timber and their thorns are known to be able puncture a tire. So I won't have any regrets if I kill a few in attempts to collect them for bonsai. I think this is our species: https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/161006-Crataegus-flabellata. But I will have to wait until spring/summer to do a more detailed ID. The tree I called stump #4 is growing right on the bank of the brook, so it is in moist soil and hopefully has good feeder roots close to the truck. All of them shown and some not shown are growing in a landscape depression where the soil is generally moist. There are others on the farm up on the hillsides in drier soils.

 

[BobbyLane]

Heres a few Hawthorn stumps with decent potential, the ultimate next step would be seeing if the nebaris are worth the effort of digging up, theres an Oak in here too..

 

[BobbyLane]

This would be a beast of a tree, with power n movement, potential to tilt the angle and have that tapered sub rising

 

[Javaman4373]

OK. This the most interesting prospect I can find so far. It maybe two distinct trees tight together or one tree. I guess I won't know if and when I collect it. It has some dramatic nebari and if the smaller inner truck is chopped off, the other trunk will have some taper.

 

[JackHammer]

Careful out there folks. ...I had a half inch hawthorne thorn stuck in the bottom of my foot for a year. MRI, surgery, the whole deal. My scar still hurts when I look at these pictures!

 

[PonderingSage:]

Maybe check around small creeks where animals may come to drink and browse.
I’ve had pretty good luck in those areas for Hawthorne.

 

[Shibui]

So I won't have any regrets if I kill a few in attempts to collect them for bonsai. I think this is our species: https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/161006-Crataegus-flabellata. But I will have to wait until spring/summer to do a more detailed ID. The tree I called stump #4 is growing right on the bank of the brook, so it is in moist soil and hopefully has good feeder roots close to the truck.

Different species occasionally respond differently to pruning and root pruning but the European hawthorns here need very few roots to survive transplant. I can basically dig the tree, chop all roots back to stumps then pot them and they survive and grow new roots. Pieces of root will also grow as root cuttings though I've never managed to root a stem cutting.
By all means try to retain a few more roots on some but don't despair if you get some with few or no feeders.

 

[BobbyLane]

Here's a mini progression on a couple of hawthorn root cuttings that became entangled in the nursery pot the mother tree was in, I planted it in the ground and they became fused into a nice little stump after about 3 years

 

[JackHammer]

Here's a mini progression on a couple of hawthorn root cuttings that became entangled in View attachment 473912the nursery pot the mother tree was in, I planted it in the ground and they became fused into a nice little stump after about 3 years

So these were just root cuttings? Did you use compost as a substrate to get them started? Did you have a lot of cuttings die off?

 

[BobbyLane]

So these were just root cuttings? Did you use compost as a substrate to get them started? Did you have a lot of cuttings die off?

Nope just planted them in the ground, cant remember if I took anymore

Hawthorn development

In apr 2017 i put this tall hawthorn in a grow bed (it's still there) the root flare isnt bad. IMG_4110 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr this was a root cutting i took from the tree, just shoved it in the ground, two thick roots entangled together apr 2017 Root cutting from tree. Both in ground by...

www.bonsainut.com

 

[JackHammer]

Nope just planted them in the ground, cant remember if I took anymore

Hawthorn development

In apr 2017 i put this tall hawthorn in a grow bed (it's still there) the root flare isnt bad. IMG_4110 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr this was a root cutting i took from the tree, just shoved it in the ground, two thick roots entangled together apr 2017 Root cutting from tree. Both in ground by...

www.bonsainut.com

Very cool. It also looks like you can root cuttings like a maple.

Brb, need to take a walk in the yard...

 

[BobbyLane]

Not to spam the thread, just to give an idea of what id view as good material worth a dig, youre also limited to whats available. all these hawthorns are in my park, I wouldnt be allowed any

This has potential without the two stems in foreground

 

[Javaman4373]

I found the ground thawed this afternoon and a big snow storm is coming in tonight, so I collected my hawthorn. It was a strenuous exercise. After I had dug quite a trench around the tree, it still felt solid in the ground. The culprit was a fairly large tap root. Once I got it home and measured the root ball, I started building a grow box to put it in. I will get that done tomorrow.. I think it is two trees that embraced each other and may have fused. I may chop the trunks back some more, but wanted to think about it first.

 

[PonderingSage:]

I found the ground thawed this afternoon and a big snow storm is coming in tonight, so I collected my hawthorn. It was a strenuous exercise. After I had dug quite a trench around the tree, it still felt solid in the ground. The culprit was a fairly large tap root. Once I got it home and measured the root ball, I started building a grow box to put it in. I will get that done tomorrow.. I think it is two trees that embraced each other and may have fused. I may chop the trunks back some more, but wanted to think about it first.

That is a nice find. You may want to cut those heavy roots back further.
Good luck !

 

[Javaman4373]

That is a nice find. You may want to cut those heavy roots back further.
Good luck !

Yes, probably should have. I potted it in a 25" x 18" wooden box and I think it is too big to put in a black plastic bag as recommended. Some of the big surface roots will not be attractive and I guess I will think about cutting them later. I did cut some of them prior to potting it. The tap root was cut back further so it sat in the box lower. What I really need to consider as well is cutting the trunks lower and what the relative height of each aesthetically should be.

 

[BobbyLane]

Yes, probably should have. I potted it in a 25" x 18" wooden box and I think it is too big to put in a black plastic bag as recommended. Some the big surface roots will not be attractive and I guess I will think about cutting them later. I did cut some of them prior to potting it. The tap root was cut back further so it sat in the box lower.

No rush, do it gradually. it wont be ready for a bonsai pot for a good while anyway.