Collecting Hawthorn

[Javaman4373]

I collected another more medium size hawthorn today. It turns out the roots are a problem. They twist around each other and grew mostly downward without a lot of feeder roots. I guess I have to take what the tree gives and I potted it in a deep pot and plan to see if it lives and develops roots that can be reduced later. I expect to chop the trunk back about another 12 inches later. I though I would wait to see what branches start before deciding that, assuming it lives.

 

[Javaman4373]

I collected a baby hawthorn today and thought it had potential for a literati style tree.

 

[atlarsenal]

@Javaman4373 Did you figure out what kind of hawthorns those are?

 

[Javaman4373]

@Javaman4373 Did you figure out what kind of hawthorns those are?

Not yet. The species we have here have white flowers, that is all I have to go on now. I will make an effort to ID the species when the leaves emerge this spring.

 

[atlarsenal]

I’m kind of jealous that you have so many to choose from. Hawthorns are hard to find down here or they are in a place that you can’t dig. Keep us updated on how these do.

 

[August44]

Are the pictures all of the same tree? Nice find!

 

[Javaman4373]

Are the pictures all of the same tree? Nice find!

In post 41 all the photos are of the same tree.

 

[Javaman4373]

The buds are starting to swell so I collected two more small trees today. I think one may be bunjin style and the other mother and daughter. Just speculation.

 

[Javaman4373]

One last hawthorn. I collected a fairly large one today growing on the bank of the brook. It did have some big tap roots though and I was able to sever them with a hand held chain saw. It is in a grow box now and we will see what happens. I left the trunk longer than I am sure it will end up, but I want to see it recover and put out some buds before I chop it back further. There is an interesting hole in the trunk above the movement. It has a rather nice nebari, now buried in soil and sphagnum moss.

 

[Javaman4373]

That hole in the trunk of hawthorn 5 creates some reverse taper. Do you think it would be wise to just chop it off now before branches start budding out?

 

[August44]

Harry harrington has quite a few hawthorn progressions, many of his trees were started from unassuming material
View attachment 473561

Caption reads:

"A side-by-side before and after of the same tree, a Hawthorn bonsai of mine. Pictured here in late 2002 after chopping but prior to collecting, and now, 20 years later.
Height 36”/91cm, bonsai pot made for the tree by Victor Harris of Erin Pottery."

Bobby, How did that tree become so straight considering the original angles of the branches etc?

 

[rockm]

Bobby, How did that tree become so straight considering the original angles of the branches etc?

Looks to me as though the tree was mostly straight to begin with. The angle of the in-ground photo is the side of the "finished" tree. The back top branch looks to have been mostly removed and grown. Same for the right side branch. The forward leaning chop on the in-ground photo is facing you in the "after" photo, which makes it appear straight. Viewed from the side, the top would probably appear to lean towards the viewer. That's preferable for most bonsai with a definite front. That forward leaning apex "bows" towards the viewer, foreshortening the trunk. It's one of those visual "tricks/rules" that enhances the visual appeal of a tree.

 

[August44]

Looks to me as though the tree was mostly straight to begin with. The angle of the in-ground photo is the side of the "finished" tree. The back top branch looks to have been mostly removed and grown. Same for the right side branch. The forward leaning chop on the in-ground photo is facing you in the "after" photo, which makes it appear straight. Viewed from the side, the top would probably appear to lean towards the viewer. That's preferable for most bonsai with a definite front. That forward leaning apex "bows" towards the viewer, foreshortening the trunk. It's one of those visual "tricks/rules" that enhances the visual appeal of a tree.

I get it. Thanks Bobby.

 

[Kanorin]

That hole in the trunk of hawthorn 5 creates some reverse taper. Do you think it would be wise to just chop it off now before branches start budding out?

Yes, I would chop that hawthorn #5 lower to avoid that straight + reverse taper section. Do it ASAP.

 

[BobbyLane]

Bobby, How did that tree become so straight considering the original angles of the branches etc?

He didnt use all the branches, the left sided one was removed. I dont think the trunk is entirely straight though. It looked like there was more movement in the raw tree due to how its sitting in the soil. the planting angle has changed since being in a pot and the tree looks more rigid.

 

[Javaman4373]

@Javaman4373 Did you figure out what kind of hawthorns those are?

Based on the leaf morphology and the range, I think the species of my hawthorns may be crataegus succulenta.

 

[Javaman4373]

The small hawthorn in post 42 was brought inside the house and has now leafed out.

 

[Javaman4373]

Progress and a few questions.

One hawthorn has been kept outside and bagged most of the time. It is just starting to push buds. Hawthorn 2 was kept in our furnace room for warmth, since March 6th. It is sprouting branches as shown in the photo. The white objects are small pieces of styrofoam to get the branches away from a vertical orientation. Most of the time I have kept them in a high humidity clear plastic bag. I could not find the thin, partially transparent black bags as recommended by Tony Tickle and Harry Harrington. The only difference I would think is the black bags would be warmer. My question is the new leaves tend to get a black die back, which I suspect is a fungus that thrives in the high humidity. How is that to be prevented? Would it be better to dispense with the bag, if that fungus is an issue?

 

[Javaman4373]

With regard to the species of Hawthorn we have here, I am still confused. There seems to be two different species, which I think are C. macrosperma and C. succulenta. Here is a view of the flowers on one tree growing as a multistem shrub growing near where I collected. The trees in the area I collected from have not opened their blossoms yet.

 

[john blanch]

Tony Tickle and Harry Harrington both keep a close eye on the trees they have bagged. Hawthorn easily gets mildew and the sooty mould may be due to insect attack, but probably is just mould exacerbated by the humid environment. The trees need to be checked and fresh air allowed to enter the sealed bags, inflating and then resealing the bags.