Collecting Oaks - DURING growing season as opposed to before?

[daygan]

I'd like to see if I can get input from all of you who have experience with collecting oaks, and maybe we can come to a general concensus as to whether this is, in general, a genus-wide "truth" or just something peculiar to oaks in England: As some may have read, Harry Harrington says that he has found that collecting his particular species of oak is more successful if done during the growing season, after the trees have already leafed out. That article is here. I'm wondering if anyone else has tried this, and what kind of results you have had. I attempted experimenting with this method last year in June and July, and got good growth while the trees were soaking in water, but lost everything to summer heat in late August (partly because I was using poor soil, and maybe also partly because I had initially kept the trees indoors while soaking in water and also did not gradually remove them from the water) I'm going to be experimenting with collecting oaks and using "Harry's method" again this year, and will report my experiences (good or bad)... Does anyone have any experiences of their own with other species of oak to add to the discussion?

 

[Bill S]

No experiance with oaks, but have found that larch which "must" be collected spring or late fall can actually be gathered mid summer. Much will depend on after care, your words say that part lacked for your efforts. Once done either you care for them properly or they will most likely die off.

 

[daygan]

Once done either you care for them properly or they will most likely die off.

Certainly true. For my own experimenting this year, I'll be more attentive to aftercare - and I finally have what is, in my opinion, a pretty good soil, so that aspect will certainly be better this year than last year.

 

[Bill S]

A step in the right direction is a good thing.

 

[edprocoat]

I had a picture of an old oak that fell almost five years ago when we had those 70 mile an hour winds blow up from the hurricane in texas through the state of Ohio, this was in late August and the tree was mostly bare rooted, yet lived and grew. There is also a maple tree not far from me that blew down, maybe 30 feet tall, and it has lived just fine. These trees had no care, they were mostly bare rooted, and the weather was scorching hot. I would assume the roots that remained below the ground had to receive some level of damage too, being pulled and maybe broken. I lost my file named trees on my computer, I wish I could show these trees to you.

I posted this picture on Flickr last year of the Maple, as you can see most the roots were ripped out of the ground, this picture was taken September 14 2011, just over four years after being blown over, the fence is new as the property has sold since then, I will have to make the 20 mile trip and see if its still there this year.

Natural raft style by edsnapshot, on Flickr

ed

 

[JudyB]

I wonder if also part of the reason it works for Harry is his cooler climate in England.
What is the "better" soil you're using for the collected trees? I've actually read that many use sand.

 

[daygan]

I'm using diatomaceous earth for everything now. Last year, all I had was native soil, which could potentially get somewhat "boggy" and, of course, had a lot of organics in it.

 

[bougie nights]

Oaks are such a diverse group of trees that I would be skeptical of a methodthat works for all of them. I've tried to collect some of our native oaks (shingle oak, chestnut oak, white oak) and had very little success. Tap roots were always an issue with 'larger' or more established trees. Perhaps if you tried a multi-year plan of root pruning, you may have some success.
I did manage to dig up a small live oak from my in-laws' place in Florida and it was more fibrous rooted and it managed to survive.

 

[daygan]

Thanks for your input, bougie. What time of the year did you dig up the live oak in Florida, and what time of the year did you dig up the native oaks with which you had little success?

 

[bougie nights]

I did the live oak in July (if you can believe that). It was small, and I managed to get a lot of roots.
The native oaks I tried to get in spring as the buds were swelling.

 

[tahoe]

i dug up an inch wide black oak in march a couple years ago and put it into the ground, but it comitted suicide within two months. i read that article and dug up another inch wide black oak in august of last year and put it into a pot, but it too comitted suicide within a couple months. about a month ago i dug up a five inch wide white oak with zero new buds on it and put it in the ground. last week it rewarded my persistence with little buds on the chopped trunk, and what looks more and more like swelling buds on the branches from a previous chop.

 

[daygan]

tahoe - thanks - let us know how that guy does

 

[daygan]

tahoe, I'm also wondering - with the black oak that you dug up in August of last year, did you soak it in water for any period of time or put it directly in a pot? What kind of soil did you pot it in? Were there any other reasons that you can think of that it may not have survived?

With this white oak that you dug up this year, I'm assuming you dug it up during its dormancy period? or was it when other white oaks were breaking dormancy? What kind of aftercare did you give it?

Thanks in advance for your information!

 

[daygan]

On April 5 I collected an oak that had already leafed out to see how it would react. I pruned away most of its branches (mainly just because they were too long for transport) and washed clean the little root mass that I managed to salvage, potted it in diatomaceous earth and left it soaking in water for a few days. On about the third day, I started lowering the water level, but as of yet have not entirely removed the pot from the water that it's standing in. Here are some photos from collection:

On April 13, it was evident that new buds were swelling. Here are some photos from that day:

As of today, some of the buds are beginning to unfurl. To be honest, the bud push and leaf growth are expected. The same thing happened with trees that I collected last year. Whether or not this tree survives the summer and continues to grow next year will be the telling factor regarding the success of the collection.

 

[edprocoat]

Daygan, I would remove it from the water now and start a regular watering routine. Water when it gets dry etc. I would not want to drown it by keeping it too much longer in the water as root rot could occur. If it is leafing out thats a sign it wants to grow, give a another week and fertlize it.

ed

 

[daygan]

Thanks, Ed - actually, normally I wouldn't leave anything soaking in water this long, but I want to try to reproduce what Harry Harrington did here - he left the trees soaking for two to three weeks. This, for me, is an experiment tree, and I don't want to vary the conditions of the experiment too much. Of course, Harry didn't say anything about seeing new growth during his soaking period, so, admittedly, that's already different for me. I'm lowering the water slowly. In fact, the water level is already well below most of the roots, and the "soil" I'm using doesn't retain water the way organic soil does, and allows air in very easily, so I think there should be no danger of "drowning" the roots... what do you think?

 

[tahoe]

tahoe, I'm also wondering - with the black oak that you dug up in August of last year, did you soak it in water for any period of time or put it directly in a pot? What kind of soil did you pot it in? Were there any other reasons that you can think of that it may not have survived?

With this white oak that you dug up this year, I'm assuming you dug it up during its dormancy period? or was it when other white oaks were breaking dormancy? What kind of aftercare did you give it?

Thanks in advance for your information!

i didn't soak any of my oaks
i just potted them in my bonsai mixture and watered them
with my garryana, it was indeed dormant as were all the oaks in my area
the only aftercare i gave it was plenty of worshipping the thing, mixed heavily with staring at it, and a pinch of pleading with my tree gods

congrats on yours budding out
i think i'd want to get it into soil if it were mine
oaks aren't big fans of wet roots from what i understand

 

[daygan]

The two trees pictured here were both collected earlier this year under different circumstances and now have a number of new roots sticking out of their pots. They were left soaking in water from approximately July 18 to October 27 to maintain turgidity (and also because I was out of town during most of that period) but there seemed to be no major detriment suffered for it. Of course, a number of the roots sticking out of their pots were black (dead) but I also noted a number of healthy, white roots.

The tree on the right was collected earliest - March 19, 2012, at a time when it seemed to me that buds were just beginning to swell. On May 3rd, it still had not produced any growth (whereas this oak had leafed out before April 19th), so I decided to chop it to see if that would induce a survival reaction and cause it to produce new growth. On May 20th, having been away for a period of time, I returned to find new leaves growing from the chop point.

The oak on the left was collected on May 3rd (already leafed out). On July 18th, after having been gone for a month and a half, I noted that all of its foliage was dead.

The reactions of these two trees, while not being proof, at least, in my mind, give credence to the idea that a certain cross-section of oak species' do well when collected during the growing season and poorly when collected in spring during bud-swell.

I'll have to continue to do more experimentation with more trees before I can reach a more certain conclusion.

 

[coh]

Somewhat different but related question. Most of you have been talking about collecting wild oak trees, which have never had any root pruning. Thus, they all most likely have significant tap roots. I have an English oak (quercus robur) that I purchased as a 2 year old seedling. It had already been root pruned when I got it. I planted it in the ground in my growing bed in spring 2011, after further root pruning. It was planted on a tile. I think it needs one more season before lifting and root pruning, and am wondering if that is something I should do in early spring when buds are swelling (the "default" time), or if it would be better done after leafing out. Any opinions?

I'm leaning toward early spring...which is when I initially root pruned and planted it. Tree has grown strongly in the past 2 seasons and is about 8' tall now.

Chris

 

[Poink88]

Chris,

No experience with English Oak but I would suggest you continue what you have been doing (early spring) since it obviously worked for you. Good luck!