Collecting Oaks - Gimme Yr Hot Dig Tips

[n8]

I live in the Central Valley of California, home of some of the most impressive oaks in the world. I have the opportunity to scour through some sizable property to collect in early spring. These will all be Valley Oaks (Quercus lobata), but there may be a a few Blues (Q. douglasii) mixed in. I have dug up wee trees (2-3 years old) successfully, but am concerned with digging up larger trees due to their vigorous tap root, While the property owner doesn't care and really just wants to thin, I also want minimize my path of destruction and try to keep anything I dig alive.

Do you have any tips on working with oak roots fresh out of the ground or collecting oaks in general?

Will be scouting a little more in the coming weeks and will include pictures.

Thanks!

 

[Wulfskaar]

That's going to be cool. I really like Valley Oaks. I went down and grabbed acorns and planted them a couple weeks ago. I'm excited and hoping to get some coming up soon.

I'm not sure how much different the handling would be between Valley Oaks and Coast Live Oaks, but the guy in this video has a lot of tips for collecting CLO. Hope it helps. I'm interested to see what's out there.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Worthy project. Best fortune. One thing concerning tap root: Very likely will have to go down 1' or more until any significant side/feeder roots. Cannot cut tap root any shallower then where enough feeders will be left. Unless tree growing on top of shallow rock be prepared for deep container or deep hole in yard to contain this. Have plenty potting medium ready before digging.

 

[BrianBay9]

That's going to be cool. I really like Valley Oaks. I went down and grabbed acorns and planted them a couple weeks ago. I'm excited and hoping to get some coming up soon.

I'm not sure how much different the handling would be between Valley Oaks and Coast Live Oaks, but the guy in this video has a lot of tips for collecting CLO. Hope it helps. I'm interested to see what's out there.

From what I've been told collecting valley oak will be significantly harder than coast live oak. Coast live oak will survive with few if any feeder roots at collection. I'm told valley oak will not, and as mentioned large specimens have deep feeder roots. I agree with Pot, look for trees growing over a shallow rock base.

 

[ShadyStump]

Cannot cut tap root any shallower then where enough feeders will be left. Unless tree growing on top of shallow rock be prepared for deep container or deep hole in yard to contain this.

look for trees growing over a shallow rock base.

There's a down side to this strategy.
If the rock isn't one big solid thing you wind up digging with crowbars and jackhammers to move the rocks out of the way to get the roots out.
Here in the foothills of Colorado, that's the name of the game. Easier to dig through three feet of earth than one foot of stone.

I've taken to giving the trunks a tug as part of my selection process. Get an idea how anchored down they are before even thinking about the shovel.

 

[BrianBay9]

There's a down side to this strategy.
If the rock isn't one big solid thing you wind up digging with crowbars and jackhammers to move the rocks out of the way to get the roots out.
Here in the foothills of Colorado, that's the name of the game. Easier to dig through three feet of earth than one foot of stone.

I've taken to giving the trunks a tug as part of my selection process. Get an idea how anchored down they are before even thinking about the shovel.

Yes, a solid ridge of rock. You want to cut a few support roots and leave with the tree. If you don't have feeder roots above the rock, give up then and there.

 

[n8]

Very likely will have to go down 1' or more until any significant side/feeder roots. Cannot cut tap root any shallower then where enough feeders will be left.

Definitely my biggest concern. This is old farmland and there will be minimal rocks, definitely not enough to force lateral branching.

I think the best strategy is going to be looking for younger trees with some interest, rather than exerting the energy on large trees that are more establishing and will require the removal of a massive tap root.

 

[Tall Guy]

As a general rule, most oak species are way tougher to collect than many other deciduous species. As others have said, you have to get lots of fine feeder roots, which can be deep. And then this way to big for bonsai root system has to be reduced over a number of future re-pottings. If you have to have an oak, it is much easier to start with a nursery tree.

 

[Wulfskaar]

From what I've been told collecting valley oak will be significantly harder than coast live oak. Coast live oak will survive with few if any feeder roots at collection. I'm told valley oak will not, and as mentioned large specimens have deep feeder roots. I agree with Pot, look for trees growing over a shallow rock base.

CLO is not that easy either. Last fall/winter I collected four small ones and only one has survived. They all were mostly taproot when I dug them out.

 

[BrianBay9]

CLO is not that easy either. Last fall/winter I collected four small ones and only one has survived. They all were mostly taproot when I dug them out.

I've actually lost more small ones than big ones. Maybe they need the energy stored in a thick trunk to recover from collection?

 

[doctorater]

I'm moving toward doing some collecting of oaks here in Arizona. I found lots of good information in this podcast from John Thompson...

Chat with John Thompson - Bonsai Wire

Oaks are a fantastic genus for training as bonsai, and John "JT" Thompson is an expert when it comes to oaks. In this episode, JT shares with Jonas the story of how he was introduced to bonsai in Japan, how he developed a love for oaks, and practi...

www.bonsaiwirepodcast.com

 

[Wulfskaar]

I've actually lost more small ones than big ones. Maybe they need the energy stored in a thick trunk to recover from collection?

I would guess that's true as well, but think the number of smaller roots matters a lot. Mine had like, 5-10 each on one long tap root. I had to plant at an angle to be able to keep the smaller roots. One is still living and has already grown some new branches. I'll note that this one that lived was put in a deciduous bonsai mix that is mostly akadama. The one I put in pumice mix died. The one I put in "dirt" died. I think the good bonsai soil allowed the roots to do better than the other types of soils.

 

[Arlithrien]

I'm looking at collecting a live oak as well. If it doesn't have any feeder roots you could try layering the existing roots to create feeders closer to the trunk like in this video attached. Leave the tree in the ground for another season while the new roots grow.

 

[BrianBay9]

I would guess that's true as well, but think the number of smaller roots matters a lot. Mine had like, 5-10 each on one long tap root. I had to plant at an angle to be able to keep the smaller roots. One is still living and has already grown some new branches. I'll note that this one that lived was put in a deciduous bonsai mix that is mostly akadama. The one I put in pumice mix died. The one I put in "dirt" died. I think the good bonsai soil allowed the roots to do better than the other types of soils.

Interesting. I suspect we have different aftercare requirements. Mine have done best in all pumice. But I suspect my climate is much cooler and wetter than yours.

 

[hemmy]

These will all be Valley Oaks (Quercus lobata), but there may be a a few Blues (Q. douglasii) mixed in.

JEALOUS! Both are amazing trees, but I’m finding that I’m not hot enough on the coast for Blue Oaks.

I really like Valley Oaks. I went down and grabbed acorns and planted them a couple weeks ago.

Root prune, root prune, root prune. I culled some seedlings from this year and noticed that even on those that I removed the taproot as the cotyledons still didn’t have much for radial roots. Maybe more develop over time. I have some more culls and should start another post on the topic for oaks.

 

[Wulfskaar]

Interesting. I suspect we have different aftercare requirements. Mine have done best in all pumice. But I suspect my climate is much cooler and wetter than yours.

It was probably more that it was my first try and that the one in pumice was the biggest one with a huge taproot that I had to hack through to get it out of the ground. There just weren't enough roots I think, regardless of the soil. Here's the link to that.
https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/coast-live-oaks.46680/page-2

 

[PaulH]

Of the two species valley oaks are more likely to survive collection as they prefer riparian conditions which may produce shallower feeder foots. Blue oaks are a foothill woodland species and every one I've tried to dig has had a tap root as long as my leg before any feeder roots appear. Since feeder roots are the key to survival I would recommend you dig down a few inches carefully. If no feeder roots are found I wouldn't waste your time , and the tree, by digging further. If feeder roots are found then you can cut the tap root below them safely as the tap root's main purpose is anchoring the tree. In my experience, live oaks are much easier to collect, coast live oaks, interior live oaks and canyon live oaks are all abundant in Northern California. The valley and blue oaks in my collection and most others I know all began as nursery grown trees, many of them came from a now defunct oak nursery in Valley Springs.

 

[Mike Corazzi]

Degood nurseries all seem to get defunct.

 

[Mike Corazzi]

I did wrangle an oak with a deep tap. I kinda curled it into a pot. Still didn't like it.
Gave it to some friends and they stuck it behind their goat shed.
It's now about 30 feet tall.

But living happily.

The one I have now was from a starter in a standard nursery. Musta started it from an acorn. Very vigorous and good close feeder roots.

It's over on that back shelf to the right. No current pic as the leaves are doing their winter prep thing and are very dry-ish. Waiting to fall.

 

[n8]

I would recommend you dig down a few inches carefully. If no feeder roots are found I wouldn't waste your time , and the tree, by digging further. If feeder roots are found then you can cut the tap root below them safely as the tap root's main purpose is anchoring the tree.

Excellent advice. Thanks, Paul.