Collecting Pines in the wild

tangledtanuki

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I'm over in Israel so I guess the closest area would be California over in the states although we have quite a bit of humidity over here. The status quo here is to collect tree in winter, Dec-Feb. I have been listening to podcasts about collecting pines during the summer and wondering what the best way to go forward is. Pines are difficult to collect as it is but having found some pines on pockets I was wondering when the best time of the year would be to collect. I'm not looking for a month but based on what the tree would be doing here or somewhere similar. We have hot dry summers so it would be interesting to know if this was actually a good time to go and collect pines.
 

sorce

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I reckon there would be some benefit to removing it from a place when it is hot and dry and giving it water.

Always collect the worst ones first for tests.

Sorce
 

Wires_Guy_wires

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My summer repots always end up in disaster, so I'm not a big advocate of summer collecting.
In spring, before they enter the growing season or in fall before the deciduous trees start changing color seems to be the best time for me.
 

tangledtanuki

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I reckon there would be some benefit to removing it from a place when it is hot and dry and giving it water.

Always collect the worst ones first for tests.

Sorce
Is this to give the tree more time to recover. From what I understand Pines get there strength from the roots so I can see how maybe before the serious summer heat here and maybe after a first flush of cones pushing collecting could still be done. I am just worried about after care in the heat. Other than placing them in the shade maybe and giving them water, anything else you would recommend. I put all yamadori into pumice so this will be the same here.
 

sorce

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I wouldn't place them in the shade, keeping the rootzone cool would be beneficial, perhaps utilizing some other potted companions, marigolds, basil, to shade the pot could keep it regenerating roots.

A shaded top will just prevent root growth.

The way I see it, as you describe the situation, the tree will be utilizing a "dormancy" method of sorts to make it through the dry period. I imagine this would be the very same time it naturally, upon receiving water again, enters a period of cross talk where the roots tell the top where to send resources to, as dry seasons will inevitably render parts more useful than others.

I believe the only key to repotting is paying attention to these crucial periods of natural cross talk.

You potting it, before it receives water again, will allow it to allocate resources to remaining places.

You are essentially "killing" what it would normally keep, the deep wetter stuff. I reckon it would normally abandon far surface roots, as a mechanism to provide future mulch for future roots.

I think winter presents the same situation.

My winter is more extreme so I Repot in summer.
If your winter is less extreme, it may be better.

So long as we collect before cross talk begins.

I reckon regenerating cross talk is one of the most demanding moves on a tree.

Sorce
 
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Interesting question . Living in the north where winters are extreme cold . So trees go dormant as a survival tactic from what they . Perceive as a dry period . Frozen water is difficult to access and use . When it warms up in spring tree gas access to water and light . Is the traditional time to collect . You give the tree it’s natural time to grow to recover from the shock. Tree outs out new vegetative growth . To convert the sun into energy to grow . Therefore producing new roots . A second annual smaller dormancy happens in the heat of summer . The tree shuts down to save water . The ground is drying . And leaves transpire at a greater rate . So it shuts down . Again for survival some people collect at the end of this period . As the tree wakes up and grows mainly tissue . And prepares for challenge if the dry winter . So general opinion is collect trees . As they start to griow after a dormancy . So I would not collect in the heat of your dry summer . You are damaging the most critical part . The roots in there toughest time . I normally collect in spring . My thinking is give the tree max time to recover . Before the max dormancy or dry time . Winter here . So I would try collecting there at end of dry summer . Tree has nice cool moist mild winter . Low demand on roots for water . Then a spring to grow . Before the high heat dry summer . I think spring collecting there . Would be like fall collecting here . Can be good but I don’t like the shirt recovery time before the worst dry time . Especially for trees we want that grow slowly and or stunted and old from harsh conditions . That are slower to recover .
 

BrianBay9

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My experience in Colorado and California......collect when dormant. I've had success in the fall around first snows in the mountains, and spring as soon as roads are passable again when snow melts. Finding trees growing in stone pockets greatly increases the chance of survival. All the roots are contained in a small space. If it's not locked into cracks in the stone, these trees can be removed with root ball intact by clipping a couple of support roots. Best trees can be collected in 15 min or so.

Aftercare - keep out of intense sunlight during the hottest parts of the day (morning and evening sun). Mist often. Don't work on the tree until it tells you it's ready - strong growth again. That could be a couple of years.
 

ShadyStump

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All I can say is where I've failed, because I haven't succeeded with pines yet.

I used to go with the late summer/fall collecting, but then they don't look dead until summer, so you never know if it was something you did in collection or the winter that killed it. I'm going over to late winter/spring collecting. Theoretically, it should still have enough energy stored to bud, which will help it grow new roots as well.
Whatever you do, don't bare root it when you dig. Get as much of the native soil it's used to as you can with the root ball, then fill in all around with your bonsai soil.
After collecting, put it somewhere with full sun all morning, but shade in the afternoon when it's hottest. Watering just it gets the that point may help keep the pot and roots cooler.
In small pots, they like much more water than you might think.

I hope my failures lead to your success.
 
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As I said in my answer . Fall collection I can see working in warm milder climate . After heat of summer dormancy . And I know some collect here at that time . I’ve never collected pine . Spring here after largest dormancy seems to make the most sense . Fall with shorter time to recover before the harshness of winter seems risky . So I agree with you . I’ve never understood the logic of fall in the north . What does it gain over spring I’m planning to try bottom heat . In winter after spring collect . Idea is cold hardy tree in dormancy in cold ambient temp . But pot warmed above freezing . Even in dormancy there is some belief roots still grow .
 

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