Collecting some Scrub Pine (Pinus virginiana) Yamadori....

Nubster

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I am going to collect several specimens for future material and was wondering if I should pot or plant in the ground for the first year(s)? The trees I'll be collecting are 5ish years old I'd say, 2-3 feet tall.
 

Brian Van Fleet

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Plant them in pots...smallest pot you can stuff them into, then work in some coarse aggregate. Collect those whose root systems are captive in the depression of a rock outcropping...very difficult to get one to survive if you have to pull up 6' of roots. Good luck. I have collected quite a few, and they are a good species to use in bonsai.
 

Nubster

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Thanks! I think I'll be heading out tomorrow to do some collecting. Hopefully I can find some that have captive roots like you suggest. Most of the ones I can get access to are in old shale pit areas, which at least will be easy digging. I'll probably end up building some boxes out of scrap wood rather than getting actual pots, but I do need to get the stuff to make some substrate.
 

rockm

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I'd skip the Va. pines and look for oak, beech and other deciduous stuff. My experience with Va. Pine in Virginia is that it grows in extremely poor clay soil that drops away from the roots at collection, mostly barerooting the tree. If not, the bigger choicest bigger trees (with trunks over three inches in diameter) have running roots that can have the first feeders 20 feet from the trunk...or dive down towards China.

That said, the bedrock up that way is closer to the surface, so you might be able to get a decent root mass and the trees you're collecting aren't old or big, so they will have shallower root systems
 

Nubster

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I'll keep that in mind. If I were to look for something like oak, what size trees should I be looking at to collect? Little saplings or something that is several feet tall? Since you are pretty close to my area, what other local stuff is good to collect? I'm in Romney, WV by the way, just a couple hours from you, rockm.
 

rockm

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"If I were to look for something like oak, what size trees should I be looking at to collect? Little saplings or something that is several feet tall? Since you are pretty close to my area, what other local stuff is good to collect? I'm in Romney, WV by the way, just a couple hours from you, rockm."

The size depends on what you want. Collecting trees for me is mostly about getting older trunks, like over 2" in diameter. That can take some digging and a little knowledge about aftercare...Saplings are easy to get, older trees with character can be, but mostly they're not. The bigger the trunk, usually, the more difficult the collection process.

As for species to look for, I've collected beech, blueberry, blackhaw, black cherry, Carolina hornbeam, wild wisteria and a few others. When I collect, I don't really consider species at first. I look at trunks--specifically the first three feet of a tree. If it has decent root spread on the surface, some movement within that small space (trunk "wiggles") then I consider species. Some species, like American beech, can be difficult as bonsai and to collect. Beech trees can grow as suckers off the roots of a nearby larger tree and you have to get the tree to produce its own set of roots before you can dig. That can take a year or two of in-ground cultivation using air and ground layer techniques. Others, like hornbeam can be simply sawed out of the ground all at once with only a few feeder roots.
 

daygan

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Also, regarding collecting oaks, I haven't come to a final conclusion personally but it seems to me that oaks may be a bit of an oddity in terms of collecting, collecting times, and after care needs. I would suggest if you see an oak that you really like, only collect it if you're certain that it's in really soft ground and has a shallow root ball with lots of feeder roots and you're very clear about general collection guidlines for most trees, or wait until we can get more information from everyone here about the best times to collect various species of oaks. I haven't found much yet, but I am experimenting with different methods of collecting my own local species of oaks. Other species of trees would probably be easier to collect as long as you understand the basic guidelines for collecting trees.
 
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Plant them in pots...smallest pot you can stuff them into, then work in some coarse aggregate. Collect those whose root systems are captive in the depression of a rock outcropping...very difficult to get one to survive if you have to pull up 6' of roots. Good luck. I have collected quite a few, and they are a good species to use in bonsai.

Hey Brian: Do you treat the Virginia pines like mughos per Vance's methods (summer repotting)?
Any input you have on this species would be greatly appreciated.
 

Brian Van Fleet

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Hey Brian: Do you treat the Virginia pines like mughos per Vance's methods (summer repotting)?
Any input you have on this species would be greatly appreciated.

I treat them like red pines. Limited repotting, springtime, in coarse soil because they're not thirsty trees. They candle at about the same time (early) and pace (slow) as a red pine, but seem to bud-back better. I do not break elongating candles in half, I let them go.

They can tolerate summer candle-pruning every-other year, and respond very well to it, if you time it right. It's about 2 weeks earlier than black pines (so, early/mid-June here). They are very flexible, but my experience is that wiring really slows them down, so wait until it's well established before you wire.

Aphids love them and hide on the bark, so keep an eye out for ants, a more visible sign aphids are close by.

Old needles hang on too long, so they can look rough at times. They're also twisted, so they will never look as neat and tidy as a JRP or JBP without lots of primping.

I'm down to one VP, having sold or donated the rest. It's not conventional at all, as it's very tall, and very old, and the whole tree is made from one branch. Most people just move on past it when they're looking at the trees. Maybe I'll clean it up for a photograph soon. It's never made an "appearance" because of the size and early state of development. But I do believe the species has merit...especially if one can graft over them with JRP. Maybe Gary Wood has some experience with this...?
 
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