Colorado Blue Spruce

PiñonJ

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This question was answered thoroughly by several people in page 2 of this thread. You cut a fair amount off in March of 2020. If you want a guarantee that it will live, do not repot until 2021. If you repot before 2021, the chances of survival will be lower. Might not drop to zero, but will definitely be less than 100%, probably closer to 25%. Might live, more likely might die. Death won't happen immediately, most often will just fail to grow in spring of 2021 because of being repotted in 2020 on top of being pruned in 2020.

But sometimes a tree will do something you don't expect. So I can not say definitively that it will live or it will die.

So, re-read page 2 of this post.
Leo, this is obviously good advice, in general. However, as I've stated a couple of times in this thread, a young spruce fresh out of the nursery can take multiple insults in one season. I still have my first two nursery trees that I purchased eight years ago - a Picea pungens and a Picea abies that were in one-gallon nursery cans. I abused them horribly in my noob ignorance. I'm talking re-potting, branch pruning, trunk chopping, then shoot pinching, all in the same spring when I purchased them. They really didn't skip a beat. I suspect the OP's tree wouldn't mind a re-pot at all and the sooner it gets into bonsai soil, the better and it's not a high-risk tree, in terms of investment. The buds aren't open yet, so the timing is fine.
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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Your right. I will wait for the repotting. Please answer this question though. Would it compromise the trees life if I wired it this year?
Someone well practiced in wiring would have no problems wiring this year. However this is a stressed tree. If you flex, and reflex and wiggle and bend a branch multiple times figuring out your wire, there is a chance you can separate or tear the cambium under the bark. You won't see the damage. Then later the branch dies. I would just leave it alone. You need it to produce buds on those branches you pruned. You don't have any "blue shiners" no nice growing buds. This tree needs to be left to recover.

Swing by a nursery and pick up another Colorado blue spruce so you have one you can work on. This one needs recovery time.

Now I am being conservative. Do what you like. I can't "know" what the tree will tolerate and what it will not. You can't go wrong leaving it grow. You want it strong before you repot in 2021. IF you wire you might have to put off repotting again.
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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Leo, this is obviously good advice, in general. However, as I've stated a couple of times in this thread, a young spruce fresh out of the nursery can take multiple insults in one season. I still have my first two nursery trees that I purchased eight years ago - a Picea pungens and a Picea abies that were in one-gallon nursery cans. I abused them horribly in my noob ignorance. I'm talking re-potting, branch pruning, trunk chopping, then shoot pinching, all in the same spring when I purchased them. They really didn't skip a beat. I suspect the OP's tree wouldn't mind a re-pot at all and the sooner it gets into bonsai soil, the better and it's not a high-risk tree, in terms of investment. The buds aren't open yet, so the timing is fine.


You are right. You also have a longer growing season than I do. My first couple Colorado blue spruce are dead now, it was a tough lesson to learn how much I can get away with.

So I offer what "I" would do, and I am conservative in my estimate as to what they can take. You can probably get away with it. I "might" get away with it, I "might not". I do tend to err on the conservative side.
 

B.uneasy

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Alright, what I am picking up is to not do crap to the tree. Wait until 2021 and repot it. You say to let it regain vigor. I did cut branches down to far to where there are no buds on half of the branches. Will buds ever grow on these branches that don't have any now? Or someday will I just have to remove these branches?
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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Alright, what I am picking up is to not do crap to the tree. Wait until 2021 and repot it. You say to let it regain vigor. I did cut branches down to far to where there are no buds on half of the branches. Will buds ever grow on these branches that don't have any now? Or someday will I just have to remove these branches?

Nobody can say with authority whether or not the branches you pruned to no buds will or will not back bud. Time will tell. Good sun, regularly watering, fertilizer, all improve the chances. It may take 2 years to know for certain whether a over-pruned branch will back bud or not. Sometimes you get lucky.
 

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Alright, what I am picking up is to not do crap to the tree. Wait until 2021 and repot it. You say to let it regain vigor. I did cut branches down to far to where there are no buds on half of the branches. Will buds ever grow on these branches that don't have any now? Or someday will I just have to remove these branches?

One of the biggest killer of trees is the impatience of the bonsai hobbiest by doing too much to a tree at once or in a year.
If the tree responds well this summer and grows with vigor, you can wire it this fall (October).
I would wait to repot until spring 2021. It will be fine in the pot it is in until then.
 

Wires_Guy_wires

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One of the biggest killer of trees is the impatience of the bonsai hobbiest by doing too much to a tree at once or in a year.
That would be a perfect description of me. It's a sacrifice I'm willing to make myself, but I wouldn't advise others to do the same.

I killed my first spruce in 3 years this spring.
 

Paradox

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That would be a perfect description of me. It's a sacrifice I'm willing to make myself, but I wouldn't advise others to do the same.

I killed my first spruce in 3 years this spring.

A lot of us went through it when we were new.
People need to realize that trees operate on a scale of years and seasons, not days and weeks like us humans.
If anything, this hobby teaches you patience. If you lack it, it will teach it to you early and the hard way, with dead trees.
 

B.uneasy

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I checked the spruce 5 days ago. The buds looked the same, nothing different. The last 3 days it has been pouring rain and I guess its gone straight to the buds. They all look like they are about to burst! When should I expect to see or not to see buds on the branches I cut below a bud? Also, is there anyway that I can try and encourage buds on lower branches that are kind of shaded out?
 

Wires_Guy_wires

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Encourage budding by helping the sun hit them. You could tilt the tree, wire foliage out of the way.

In spruce, buds can take 1-15 years to develop, and 0-10 years to come out of dormancy. This is in both good, and very poor conditions. There's little sense in it, it either happens, or it doesn't.

Some old articles state that back budding can be enforced, but none of my picea responded as expected.

If there are no buds, you can expect the branch to die in 2-3 years. So if it lives, it might bud, it might die later.
 

Forsoothe!

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Encourage budding by helping the sun hit them. You could tilt the tree, wire foliage out of the way.

In spruce, buds can take 1-15 years to develop, and 0-10 years to come out of dormancy. This is in both good, and very poor conditions. There's little sense in it, it either happens, or it doesn't.

Some old articles state that back budding can be enforced, but none of my picea responded as expected.

If there are no buds, you can expect the branch to die in 2-3 years. So if it lives, it might bud, it might die later.
That's encouraging...
 

WNC Bonsai

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I gave mine too much work in the last year including a root prune this spring and it was slow to erupt as a result. i was still getting buds opening in the last couple of weeks but they seem to have slowed down now. I expect to have a big flush next year once the root system recovers, I am just letting it grow this year.
 

stu929

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Unless it is like 80% off. Then you get it and decide latter what to do with it.
This unfortunately is how I have ended up with so many trees. Now I just need to make some plans for the spring!
 

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This unfortunately is how I have ended up with so many trees. Now I just need to make some plans for the spring!
I did buy 2 of them myself that were 80% off. One was planted as a tree for the wildlife. The other was hacked on quite mercilessly. We will see if there is anything there in a few years.
 

stu929

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I did buy 2 of them myself that were 80% off. One was planted as a tree for the wildlife. The other was hacked on quite mercilessly. We will see if there is anything there in a few years.
Complete noob so what do I know but...... I look at that two ways. I have had people tell me stop picking up trees because it keeps you from spending time on good material. I'm not 100% I could also spot new material so I figured if I can learn and work on something that won't hurt me financially I should be less worried. The other thing is I have heard a few of the youtube guys say anything could and should be able to make a bonsai. It's about imagination.

I remember Ryan Neil's comment about during his apprenticeship and having to style a 5 dollar hinoki and laughing and it and the subsequent lesson he got. Do I ever think I'll be Ryan Neil no, I wish but not. My point is if playing cheap for now allows me to be In the game and hopefully build confidence I'm okay with that. Yes that may mean I may not have an amazing bonsai ready for a show in a year or two but I'm a complete noob, I don't think I would either way. And who knows maybe I can find a diamond in the rough, just need to make room for all the trees and it forces me to learn about more than one species.
 

penumbra

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It is a balancing act of having enough so that you don't worry them to death and not so many that you can't find the time to develop them.
It is something most of us deal with.
 

stu929

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It is a balancing act of having enough so that you don't worry them to death and not so many that you can't find the time to develop them.
It is something most of us deal with.
I can definitely understand that. I need to figure out a better option for where to put them. That would be my main concern with a high count. I essentially have a spot that is sun all day but is across my yard and would be a bear to move if hard frost is coming. I also have a spot that only gets morning sun and is close. Trees seem to be fairly happy with the morning sun but they have been slow to turn colors and have not grown much with the limited sun. I moved them to the morning sun spot because he had a very hot dry summer and I was getting scortch. The morning sun spot worked well to limit that and it's close. Hoping if I get most of the trees into the full sun spot early next year they will acclimate and I can leave them in one spot.

My house has a huge line of pines that block sun on one side so getting good sun exposure without too much is a bit of a challenge. Still playing with where I can put things permanently.
 

Forsoothe!

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I have heard a few of the youtube guys say anything could and should be able to make a bonsai. It's about imagination.
Baloney. The differences between good bonsai and never gonna be are subtle and many trees do not have the architecture to make into a shape that is either graceful, or rugged, or dramatic, and knowing the difference is what separates the men from the boys. Chopping is often the answer in such cases, but that takes skill to guide them to something, eventually, and many people drop the ball 5 minutes after they make the chop.

The answer is the same as it is for any other endeavor: education and practice. Education where you can rub shoulders with people who know more than you, and practice means volume. You learn by doing and learn better and deeper by doing more. Professional basketball players shoot hoops and practice moving with the ball everyday and that's why they can make moves and shots at lightning speeds in games: repetition builds muscle memory that doesn't involve thinking, "...now I take a short step right, and a long step left...". We don't need speed, we need decision making that leads us to be able to look at a hundred trees and see the one that has the most redeeming features. You don't get there without wiring a bunch of almost trees that just don't have the wood. Volume to practice on is a winner for greenies. Reading books is good at the beginning, just like reading books in college leads to a degree. The degree will get you in the door, but then you have to preform, delivering the goods in short order.
 
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