Colorado Blue Spruce

stu929

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Good evening. Fairly new to bonsai here. I'm in 6B Southern PA and I'm trying to take In as much info as possible. As with many others I'm struggling with taking my time.

I recently picked up two pot bound Colorado Blue Spruce from a local nursery. I was concerned about them being pot bound but both had nice thick trunks and good movement. While not special compared to some I've seen I'm excited to have them based on what I paid. I'm curious what's the best time to work these and how would you treat a heavily pot bound tree. I did a little initial cleaning but tried not to prune too much as I wasn't sure if it was a good time if year. Is there a good calendar to help with when to do what to specific species? I just want to make sure I don't miss my opportunity to do work and waste a year. Also want to make sure I have whatever supplies I may need on hand as I am newer to this addiction 😜

My styling plans are leaning towards informal or leaning style eventually but I know that will take time.
 

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Njyamadori

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I’m just a beginner but nice tree 🌲 I hope someone here will help you
 

Orion_metalhead

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I have had luck repotting in spring right as buds start to elongate.

I would focus on first giving this a repot in spring to alleviate the root bound situation... perhaps best option is to half bare root the tree... you can search up half bare root instructions on here... basically, you work half the root ball now, and the other half in a couple years to transition from nursery soil to bonsai soil. This is the norm for conifers, it seems.

You could do some light styling and wiring now or next autumn. I would wait to do major pruning for a couple seasons, however you could do basic upkeep on the tree such as keeping the apex in check, and pruning to distribute energy to lower branches.

Ryan Neil has some good videos on youtube on the Mirai channel on spruces.
 

canoeguide

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Roots, trunk, branches, foliage. As I understand it, bonsai are created in that order. Or at least, that should be the order that you focus on.

So the first thing I would work on is getting the root base sorted and into substrate that is heavily or completely inorganic. As @Orion_metalhead said, the safe(r) way to do this is half of the root base at a time. You might get it all done in one go next spring if you're not too aggressive, aftercare is on point, and you leave the tree alone for a year or three after.

I'd focus on getting it through a repotting and set up for health and success, especially since it's likely to have a pretty tangled maze of roots in the nursery pot. It looks promising!
 

stu929

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To say I'm a little concerned about what I will find when I cut the pot off is an understatement. It feels nearly solid. Hoping the surface roots clean up and turn out to be something interesting. I believe this guy had been there for quite a long time because of the curves. As such it probably should have been moved up to a new pot a while ago.

Thank you for the info. I'll focus on a repot in spring. Not going to lie I badly want to style is but I know resolving the roots and getting it ok the right path is the most important thing. Hard to move slowly sometimes.

If anyone knows of a calendar that had timing for actions / species I'm still looking. Partially because my memory isn't what it should be but also because I have picked up a few different types of trees and want to make sure I don't miss my opportunity to get work done at the optimal times.

Thanks in advance!
 

stu929

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I have had luck repotting in spring right as buds start to elongate.

I would focus on first giving this a repot in spring to alleviate the root bound situation... perhaps best option is to half bare root the tree... you can search up half bare root instructions on here... basically, you work half the root ball now, and the other half in a couple years to transition from nursery soil to bonsai soil. This is the norm for conifers, it seems.

You could do some light styling and wiring now or next autumn. I would wait to do major pruning for a couple seasons, however you could do basic upkeep on the tree such as keeping the apex in check, and pruning to distribute energy to lower branches.

Ryan Neil has some good videos on youtube on the Mirai channel on spruces.
I love watching Ryan's videos. Hoping in time to get a membership but it's just a little steep right now. That being said I love watching him work.
 

Colorado

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Nice find. There is no “calendar” for this work, but you should repot the blue spruce when you can just barely start to see the buds starting to elongate in the spring. In the photo below, note how one of the buds has shed its outer covering. Ideally you would repot right before this occurs:
F33979C4-AA47-446A-BCDA-B40C1E47A5DE.jpeg

This is the best time for heavy root work on blue spruce in my opinion. The tree already has the momentum to push the flush of foliage that will regenerate the root mass.

I do not do the half bare root method, especially not for nursery bound spruce. It makes no sense to me why you would want one half the pots substrate you be different than the other half.

Instead, I reduce the rootball to the appropriate size (keeping in mind to always leave some portion of the root system untouched with a conifer) and then place in a container with bonsai soil on the bottom and around the sides of the container. You then remove the remaining nursery soil in subsequent repots.

The root all will probably be very tough. I recommend coming down from the top until you find thick structural roots, and then come up from the bottom until you hit roots too large to remove on the first repot, or until the rootball is of satisfactory size and shape.
 

stu929

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Nice find. There is no “calendar” for this work, but you should repot the blue spruce when you can just barely start to see the buds starting to elongate in the spring. In the photo below, note how one of the buds has shed its outer covering. Ideally you would repot right before this occurs:
View attachment 338635

This is the best time for heavy root work on blue spruce in my opinion. The tree already has the momentum to push the flush of foliage that will regenerate the root mass.

I do not do the half bare root method, especially not for nursery bound spruce. It makes no sense to me why you would want one half the pots substrate you be different than the other half.

Instead, I reduce the rootball to the appropriate size (keeping in mind to always leave some portion of the root system untouched with a conifer) and then place in a container with bonsai soil on the bottom and around the sides of the container. You then remove the remaining nursery soil in subsequent repots.

The root all will probably be very tough. I recommend coming down from the top until you find thick structural roots, and then come up from the bottom until you hit roots too large to remove on the first repot, or until the rootball is of satisfactory size and shape.
Thank you I'll save this picture for reference. As I said I'm newer but this is also my first Spruce. Thanks again!
 

stu929

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Nice find. There is no “calendar” for this work, but you should repot the blue spruce when you can just barely start to see the buds starting to elongate in the spring. In the photo below, note how one of the buds has shed its outer covering. Ideally you would repot right before this occurs:
View attachment 338635

This is the best time for heavy root work on blue spruce in my opinion. The tree already has the momentum to push the flush of foliage that will regenerate the root mass.

I do not do the half bare root method, especially not for nursery bound spruce. It makes no sense to me why you would want one half the pots substrate you be different than the other half.

Instead, I reduce the rootball to the appropriate size (keeping in mind to always leave some portion of the root system untouched with a conifer) and then place in a container with bonsai soil on the bottom and around the sides of the container. You then remove the remaining nursery soil in subsequent repots.

The root all will probably be very tough. I recommend coming down from the top until you find thick structural roots, and then come up from the bottom until you hit roots too large to remove on the first repot, or until the rootball is of satisfactory size and shape.
The top is very hard btw. I need to get a root hook as it's very very solid. Tried digging with my fingers and a stick at the nursery and couldn't get anywhere.
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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About a calendar, when to do what, there is no universal calendar. Your local climate and microclimate will determine the timing. And each year, last frost in spring and first frost in autumn can vary 2 to 3 weeks either way. Biological - climate events should set the calendar. When you get advice, check the location of the poster, then make adjustments to timing compared to your Pennsylvania location.

Myself, I routinely repot spruce in late summer, when night temperature begins to regularly drop below 65 F at night. Usually for me that is Aug 15 to Sept 1. For you it might be a week or two later. If it is still warm at night at Aug 15, I wait until the weather turns.

Spring repotting is fine too, there are 2 windows of time where repotting is acceptable.

Note, for 6 months before repotting, and 12 months after, I do zero pruning. This is conservative, but I have not lost any spruce since following this guideline.
 

sorce

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Welcome to Crazy!

Where you at?

I routinely killed everything repotting in spring, short a couple elms.

Successfully summer repotted spruce list is growing. Colorado Blue, Bird's Nest, Dwarf Alberta, White Spruce, Black Hills Spruce.

When spring growth is done, they just sit and grow roots the rest of the year. It's kind of not necessary to remove the roots and Repot while it's growing it's top. Except insert "stupid as hell" where I typed "kind of not necessary".

Sorce
 

stu929

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About a calendar, when to do what, there is no universal calendar. Your local climate and microclimate will determine the timing. And each year, last frost in spring and first frost in autumn can vary 2 to 3 weeks either way. Biological - climate events should set the calendar. When you get advice, check the location of the poster, then make adjustments to timing compared to your Pennsylvania location.

Myself, I routinely repot spruce in late summer, when night temperature begins to regularly drop below 65 F at night. Usually for me that is Aug 15 to Sept 1. For you it might be a week or two later. If it is still warm at night at Aug 15, I wait until the weather turns.

Spring repotting is fine too, there are 2 windows of time where repotting is acceptable.

Note, for 6 months before repotting, and 12 months after, I do zero pruning. This is conservative, but I have not lost any spruce since following this guideline.
Not looking for universal, just looking for guidelines so that I can plan things out in my calendar. Just trying to keep things straight and not hurt a tree that I like.
 

stu929

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Better angle with some wire.
 

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stu929

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Welcome to Crazy!

Where you at?

I routinely killed everything repotting in spring, short a couple elms.

Successfully summer repotted spruce list is growing. Colorado Blue, Bird's Nest, Dwarf Alberta, White Spruce, Black Hills Spruce.

When spring growth is done, they just sit and grow roots the rest of the year. It's kind of not necessary to remove the roots and Repot while it's growing it's top. Except insert "stupid as hell" where I typed "kind of not necessary".

Sorce
I'm in PA. 6B depending on which map you look at.
 

Adair M

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Nice find. There is no “calendar” for this work, but you should repot the blue spruce when you can just barely start to see the buds starting to elongate in the spring. In the photo below, note how one of the buds has shed its outer covering. Ideally you would repot right before this occurs:
View attachment 338635

There are many posts on the benefits of doing the HBR process.

In short, doing it the way you describe is a bad way to transition to all inorganic bonsai soil. Assuming the goal is to transition to inorganic soil, doing the HBR method is the most successful.

You see, the openness of the inorganic soil is so different than the compactness of the old rootball, roots don’t grow into the inorganic soil. Water passes through the inorganic soil very quickly. Water that lands on the old rootball runs over to the inorganic soil, and down and out before absorbing into the old soil. Meanwhile, the old soil is where the roots are. They take the water out of the ok’d rootball. What happens over time is the old rootball dries out in the center, and even though the tree might get watered daily, the tree doesn’t get enough water.

Boon invented the HBR method to force roots into the new inorganic soil. By doing the HBR on one side, they would be in the new soil. They would get wet when the tree was watered. Meanwhile, the old roots sustains the tree until the HBR roots start growing into the new medium.

After a year, HBR the other side.

Prior to doing the HBR, Boon found that roots just didn’t grow into the inorganic soil. Others had similar experiences. And they would say that Boon mix (inorganic soil) didn’t work. The HBR process changed all that. Once trees find themselves in all inorganic soil, they can thrive in pots indefinitely.

This is the best time for heavy root work on blue spruce in my opinion. The tree already has the momentum to push the flush of foliage that will regenerate the root mass.

I do not do the half bare root method, especially not for nursery bound spruce. It makes no sense to me why you would want one half the pots substrate you be different than the other half.

Instead, I reduce the rootball to the appropriate size (keeping in mind to always leave some portion of the root system untouched with a conifer) and then place in a container with bonsai soil on the bottom and around the sides of the container. You then remove the remaining nursery soil in subsequent repots.

The root all will probably be very tough. I recommend coming down from the top until you find thick structural roots, and then come up from the bottom until you hit roots too large to remove on the first repot, or until the rootball is of satisfactory size and shape.
 

stu929

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Did you make aI just see the qouted text, did you have something else ?
 

stu929

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Not sure what happened to my comment.....Did you have something you typed? All I see is the qouted information from where you qouted Colorado?
 

Orion_metalhead

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Everything thing after the link is Adair's up to the last three paragraphs. He typed in wrong spot in the post. Happens often. I respect Adair's experience with conifers... few have as much experience with their care.
 

Adair M

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Oops... apparently I typed inside the quoted text. Here’s what I meant to say:

There are many posts on the benefits of doing the HBR process.

In short, doing it the way you describe is a bad way to transition to all inorganic bonsai soil. Assuming the goal is to transition to inorganic soil, doing the HBR method is the most successful.

You see, the openness of the inorganic soil is so different than the compactness of the old rootball, roots don’t grow into the inorganic soil. Water passes through the inorganic soil very quickly. Water that lands on the old rootball runs over to the inorganic soil, and down and out before absorbing into the old soil. Meanwhile, the old soil is where the roots are. They take the water out of the ok’d rootball. What happens over time is the old rootball dries out in the center, and even though the tree might get watered daily, the tree doesn’t get enough water.

Boon invented the HBR method to force roots into the new inorganic soil. By doing the HBR on one side, they would be in the new soil. They would get wet when the tree was watered. Meanwhile, the old roots sustains the tree until the HBR roots start growing into the new medium.

After a year, HBR the other side.

Prior to doing the HBR, Boon found that roots just didn’t grow into the inorganic soil. Others had similar experiences. And they would say that Boon mix (inorganic soil) didn’t work. The HBR process changed all that. Once trees find themselves in all inorganic soil, they can thrive in pots indefinitely.
 
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