Common Alder - Crispy Leaves

[ConorDash]

Hello,


This is an Alder that I own, from BobbyLane originally.

I believe it's been in this pot for 1 year, this being its second.

When the buds popped, it's leaves started to go crispy..





When that happened, I moved it to semi-shade and thought more closely about its watering.


Now it's like this..




Anyone want to posit a guess as to what has affected it and how I can combat it?


I've thought about too little water and too much, and too much sun. I'm not quite comfortable with its soil yet so it is possible it's a watering issue, however it could only be too much not too little, and the Alder really likes more wet soil so I feel like that's not the problem.

The only other thing I'm thinking is wind.. it could have had 1-2 days bad wind and that was it, damage done.


Anyone have any thoughts for me? Potentially someone who's had the same issue before.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Did the damage occur all at once? Or did it progressively get worse over a week or more?

Does the damage only show up on the older leaves (the first buds to break) while the new leaves are fine? Or are all the leaves uniformly damaged?

Are the leaves on top of the tree as damaged as the leaves lower down and in the interior?

When were those big trunk cuts made? I seal all my cuts in deciduous trees.

 

[BobbyLane]

chops were made last summer, im baffled as to whats caused this but i believe it could of gotten too dry and maybe the roots have been shaken up a bit its hard to say..
Conar buddy, i did mention to keep the soil topped up on occasion and you said you couldnt get any more soil in the pot.
but this is how it should look with the soil up and surface roots partially covered
IMG_2183 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

this is the tree last summer
IMG_2562 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

im looking at the images and it looks like a lot of the top soil has been washed away, this can happen when jet watering, one of the reasons i suggested using a watering can

ps nothing to do with the chops, they were treated with bonsai deadwood preserver then sealed with kyonel.

this tree was a freebie to Conar btw
i would also suggest a dose of sea weed and rhizo and top dress the soil with chopped spagnam moss like this
20170412_215215 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr
it will only need to be watered when the moss is dry to the touch and a lighter colour

 

[BobbyLane]

I know you wasnt happy with the soil, but the tree was in a lot of that soil when i received it and was growing well and healthy in it, see here
IMG_1592 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr
IMG_1557 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

so when it went into the shallow, it wasnt bare rooted, as there was no need to as the tree seemed to like it. a lot of the old soil was kept and the pot was filled in with good bonsai soil.

 

[ConorDash]

I know you wasnt happy with the soil, but the tree was in a lot of that soil when i received it and was growing well and healthy in it, see here
IMG_1592 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr
IMG_1557 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

so when it went into the shallow, it wasnt bare rooted, as there was no need to as the tree seemed to like it. a lot of the old soil was kept and the pot was filled in with good bonsai soil.

Hey,
Yeah I did top up with soil. I didn't ignore your advice lol, I'll take a better pic of the base when I get in. I don't jet wash it, I either use a sprinkle of water from a distance or watering can, I know to try and not disturb the soil.
If anything I feel it was too wet not dry, as I will have watered more than less but maybe I'm wrong.

I wasn't unhappy with the soil, not at all. I was just uncomfortable because I wasn't used to it, but I'm new to the hobby so that's only natural. Whatever soil you use, I would trust more than my own! You know your stuff better than I do.

Perhaps I'll take off the compost I put on and put on my litter. It'll sit on the pot easier.

I'm by NO MEANS saying this problem is not my fault and I'm by NO MEANS ungrateful to you Bobby.
I know it's got to be the wind or watering, something due to my care that's the problem.
I'll take a pic when I'm home to show the soil I topped it up with.

 

[ConorDash]

Did the damage occur all at once? Or did it progressively get worse over a week or more?

Does the damage only show up on the older leaves (the first buds to break) while the new leaves are fine? Or are all the leaves uniformly damaged?

Are the leaves on top of the tree as damaged as the leaves lower down and in the interior?

When were those big trunk cuts made? I seal all my cuts in deciduous trees.

Progressive. The first sign 3weeks ago and those recent pics are from a few days ago.
I have a few pics from a month ago where the issue wasn't present.

I would say it's the older, larger leaves. Newer ones not affected.

I'm not sure about that, I can comment with that once home.

The large wounds, Bobby has answered .

Thanks for your interest BNut.

 

[Waltron]

looks to me like a case of: fert burn, maybe too much chem/salt based ferts. leaves are dark green, and burned at the edge. what are you using for ferts?
which can be a result of a PH issue, from tap water. that combined with full sun.
also, Alder is a water loving species, think willow, bald cypress etc. less than ideal water, with wind and full sun.. I think can cause this.
my suggestion:
flush with rain water or RO or if you have it. go to a organic based fert, give shade from 12pm on, morning sun only.

I've experienced similar issues with my native hornbeams in the past. some species are just more sensitive to minerals and PH.

 

[GrimLore]

I would say it's the older, larger leaves. Newer ones not affected.

Could be a much simpler explanation... If the first buds(older) popped to early during warmer weather and then they were exposed to a several days of cold, rain, and wind perhaps? You mentioned the newer growth is fine

Grimmy

 

[BobbyLane]

Could be a much simpler explanation... If the first buds(older) popped to early during warmer weather and then they were exposed to a several days of cold, rain, and wind perhaps? You mentioned the newer growth is fine

Grimmy

This could be the case also, i discussed this with Conar. we had some pretty cold nights not long ago where the temps dipped sharply. i have beech and oak in the allotment bed who suffered.

 

[GrimLore]

This could be the case also, i discussed this with Conar. we had some pretty cold nights not long ago where the temps dipped sharply. i have beech and oak in the allotment bed who suffered.

My Bald Cypress budded early as we had a much warmer then usual April, also the Willow. We had a cold snap lasting days in May, BC foliage looks like hell, and a really nice twin trunk Willow - well that appears dead... The Weather this Spring has been rough on a LOT of plants but not much we can do. I mentioned it because to much care right now would be harmful and it is best to let most without fertilizer and normally watered so they have a chance to recover.

Grimmy

 

[ConorDash]

I agree, it could certainly be the few nights of cold we had.

Or it could be the fert thing. I do use tap water and we are in a very hard water area. Essentially, it could be any of it lol.
I can only continue to do my best with it's watering and care then, and hope it snext flush doesn't do this.

These are pics of the pot Bobby,
https://imgur.com/a/F5tQB

I could maybe pack more on top of it but it's difficult as it would flow over or just roll off. Don't worry about the white, it's from the tap water... calcium deposits. I'll pack some more compost on it tomorrow, as it's probably slowly fallen off since I got the tree from you. It did used to have more on it.

 

[dirk hoorelbeke]

We had a lot of trees with frost damage this spring. We're not that far apart so that would be my first guess. Keep in mind that a shallow pot retains more water around the roots. Be careful in spring not to overwater.

 

[GrimLore]

I could maybe pack more on top of it but it's difficult as it would flow over or just roll off. Don't worry about the white, it's from the tap water... calcium deposits. I'll pack some more compost on it tomorrow, as it's probably slowly fallen off since I got the tree from you. It did used to have more on it.

As I said and need to repeat is just leave it be and take care of it watering as needed, as you did in months past. No fertilizer for a month, leave the pot, roots, and soil as is - IF it was nature just let it recover without shocking it by means of good intention It went in healthy and it will come out that way - you just need to tolerate the setback.

Grimmy

 

[Waltron]

Connor,

get a rain barrel for like 60 bucks and stick it under your gutter, you will get a surprisingly ample supply of rain water. some plants are more tolerant of the tap water, like crab apple and elm, so save the rain water for your more sensitive ones like beech, oak, hornbeam, alder etc..

next watering try putting a teaspoon of vinegar in about 2-3 gallons of tap water. maybe try pick up some litmus paper, and maybe some PH down at your hydr shop. just a thought.

 

[ConorDash]

As I said and need to repeat is just leave it be and take care of it watering as needed, as you did in months past. No fertilizer for a month, leave the pot, roots, and soil as is - IF it was nature just let it recover without shocking it by means of good intention It went in healthy and it will come out that way - you just need to tolerate the setback.

Grimmy

Thanks, that's a good post. I'm happy to do that, it's just the feeling of doing something wrong and if that's not corrected, continuing to do wrong. But it seems I'm ok. It's not been fertilised with my organic pellets (like every other tree has). It gets some minor chem liquid fert weekly but barely.

 

[ConorDash]

Connor,

get a rain barrel for like 60 bucks and stick it under your gutter, you will get a surprisingly ample supply of rain water. some plants are more tolerant of the tap water, like crab apple and elm, so save the rain water for your more sensitive ones like beech, oak, hornbeam, alder etc..

next watering try putting a teaspoon of vinegar in about 2-3 gallons of tap water. maybe try pick up some litmus paper, and maybe some PH down at your hydr shop. just a thought.

We have 2 large water butts (maybe wrong spelling..), I used to use only rain water but changed to tap for sustainability. Also plenty of opinions that it'd be fine to.
Maybe you've a point about saving more just for use with sensitive ones.
The water butts haven't been cleaned in forever, which is why I also don't like them but at same time, it's all nature so what's the harm.. they are both probably full now. Not been used since last summer or so.

 

[Waltron]

how are the leaves on your beech?

 

[ConorDash]

how are the leaves on your beech?

Very dead.
Although that's probably cos I chopped its head off .

 

[Waltron]

ok let me ask you this, do you have any trees with nice healthy leaves lacking issue?

 

[ConorDash]

Yeh my pyracantha airlayer, all good. All 5 Chinese elms are looking strong, olive tree is good.
My Japanese maple has a history of problems and it's always had chlorosis looking leaves but I'm now using seaweed extract to help that and it's actually looking better after 3 weeks of that treatment.
Pretty much just this tree.. sorry, I know where you may have been going with that lol