confused with maples

[remist17]

confused with maples and elms

I am new to bonsai (3 years) and I see conflictng information on trainging and growth of trees. I have several young maples (around 3 to 5 years old) in growing pots. The trunks are about a pencil to a little larger in size. Some people say to let them grow wild until the trunk gets to the desired size. Some others say to trim them and keep them in the shape you want the tree to be. I am a little lost. Do I just let them grow wild or do I trim them. I will post photos tomorrow of the trees. I also have elms in the same condition.

It seems some of the larger elms are starting to have the inside leaves die off because of the lack of sun. I am thinking of thinning out the trees to allow for light and back budding.

Any suggestions or pointers will be helpful

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Kinda funny, but the answer to your question is BOTH! But at different times...

1. Always, always, always build a tree from the roots up. Begin by creating an even, radial nebari in the spring. Then allow the trunk to thicken through WILD growth. If some of that wild growth threatens to cause reverse taper or awkward movement, it should be removed.

2. After the roots are established, work on the trunk. Trunks are "built" in sections. Read Brent's article here. If you follow nothing else, this will get you where you need to go: http://www.evergreengardenworks.com/trunks.htm

3. Trimming back to shape comes later; in the form of pinching. With D-trees, pinching isn't to create a nice profile, that is a by-product. Pinching is actually to create a good network of ever-finer branching, and to create balance so weak shoots aren't sacrificed for the strong, more productive ones.

Also, if you're losing interior growth on a pencil-thick trunk, it's likely something other than being shaded out. Some of my trees have canopies too big to put your arms around, and they're not dying from the inside. Is it in enough light to begin with? Is it being fed strong enough? Does it have a pest/disease?

 

[remist17]

Thank you for the respone. The tree that is in question is a Zelkova Elm. The elm trunk is about 1/2" diam and about 27" tall. It had great growth and the branches are about 2 feet from the trunk. I had it in partial shade and I think it was not gettting enought sun. I have since move the tree to full sun from morning until 2 pm. I feed every two weeks with a miracle grow mix or a 10-10-10.

My maples seem to be doing fine just was not sure with the trim/ growth aspect.

Sorry for the two part question confusion. I will take some photos this weekend and post them here if you could comment I would appreciate it.

 

[jk_lewis]

If these areJapanese or Trident maples, you probably ought to have Peter Adams' Bonsai With Japanese Maples.

Stone Lantern often has it on sale. Otherwise, it may be less expensive at Amazon.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Sure, post 'em up and let's have a look. Zelkova like all day sun, and mine is a heavy feeder. Increasing sun and food might get them back into shape. Here's mine, basking out in full sun.

 

[remist17]

Here are some of the trees I am having issues with.
The elm below has verigated leaves and is now having leaves turn yellow


Fed every 2 weeks with liquid miracle grow. I also had some 10-10-10 grain fert I put on 2 weeks ago instead of the miracle grow. I plan on skipping this feading this weekend.
I see no signs of bugs but of course I could miss some. I can spray them with seven, or a organic soap I picked up for my tropicals.



Here is the elm that is also loosing some leaves near the trunk.



Here are my two larger japanese maples

These are in partial sun and seem to doing ok. Maybe larger leaf than they should be.


Since my previous original post I have moved the elms to full sun from 10 am until 4pm.

 

[berobinson82]

Hi

I see an awful lot of ground in the background of those pictures. Planting these young trees in the ground over a tile or plate would speed up the rate at which they thicken... I'm sure you'll gather that from the article posted above.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

First one appears to be Chinese Elm. They are semi-evergreen and will lose leaves from time to time. It could,benefit from more sun, and maybe better soil at next transplanting.

Second elm appears to be zelkova, and healthy, but may also benefit from more sun.

Maples (trident left, Japanese right) look healthy and happy.

I'd bump up my feeding schedule to weekly.

 

[remist17]

I have several trees in the ground, an had these in larger pots to grow. I am not to concerned over trunk size, but concentrate on growing them healthy and learning about the tree. For me having the tree on the table to look at daily helps me understand what th tree needs. If its in the ground mother nature is growing it. Just my opinion.

I have the benches in a area that does not take away from my small yard and I mostly live in the woods. I cut some large trees down for wood, so these will get sun from 10 until sun down. I hope this will be ok for the elms.

My feeding schedule.... What should I use for weekly feeding. I was concerned over the salt consentration that is some of the fert, like miracle grow. I have a grainler 10-10-10 but I am not sure if that would be to much?



Going off subject...... Hornbeams, do they like full all day sun, part shade, shade?

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

My feeding schedule.... What should I use for weekly feeding. I was concerned over the salt consentration that is some of the fert, like miracle grow. I have a grainler 10-10-10 but I am not sure if that would be to much?

Going off subject...... Hornbeams, do they like full all day sun, part shade, shade?

I try to stay out of specific feeding advice here. Like soil, it's just too personal/controversial. You'll need to figure out what works for you. My program is outlined on my site.

Hornbeams are understory trees, I try to give mine full sun until it gets hot, then move it to a spot where it gets some dappled afternoon shade. Back to more sun in the fall to bring out best fall colors.

 

[MACH5]

Yes I agree! Feeding is a highly debated subject much like politics and religion. You ask 20 people and you'll likely get 20 different answers. I will tell you mine and will leave it at that.
I feed a combo of cakes rotating weekly between fish emulsion and a chemical fert like Peters. I slow it down in the Summer to biweekly feedings.

 

[remist17]

I understand and after thinking of it thank you for not responding to the fert question. I do not want to start the arguments.

I am looking at your site now.... GREAT STUFF
THANKS!!!!