Conifers rule.......

greerhw

Omono
Messages
1,978
Reaction score
13
I love America's native conifer species, all of them, too many to list. But what I have is what John Kirby calls "Zone Envy". Ponderosa are about the only ones that will thrive here. The California junipers, one of my favorites will do ok if grafted with Itowgawa foliage. RMJ's struggle and you have to have a lot of patience to keep them here, but they are always on the edge. Somewhere between here in Oklahoma and South Dakota, must be the perfect climate for JBP and RMJ's. I guess we bonsai brotherhood see the grass as greener on the other side of the fence. I'm happy that I can keep the species that I can, but sometimes when I see a beautiful example of a tree I can't keep, I get a little jealous. Am I the only one.....?

keep it green,
Harry
 
Last edited:

cascade

Shohin
Messages
484
Reaction score
163
Location
Naples Florida
USDA Zone
10a
Zone envy..

I would love to be able to grow Maples, RMJ,Scots Pine, Mugo pine, Ponderosa pine,White pine, Red pine,Norway spruce,Itoigawa Juniper, California Juniper,Olive,Larch,Hornbeam,Crataegus,Azalea and Redwood here in SW Florida.

But hey, we have the Gulf..:(

-dorothy
 

shohin kid

Shohin
Messages
271
Reaction score
0
Location
New Haven, CT
USDA Zone
7a
I love America's native conifer species, all of them, too many to list. But what I have is what John Kirby calls "Zone Envy". Ponderosa are about the only ones that will thrive here. The California junipers, one of my favorites will do ok if grafted with Itowgawa foliage. RMJ's struggle and you have to have a lot of patience to keep them here, but they are always on the edge. Somewhere between here in Oklahoma and South Dakota, must be the perfect climate for JBP and RMJ's. I guess we bonsai brotherhood see the grass as greener on the other side of the fence. I'm happy that I can keep the species that I can, but sometimes when I see a beautiful example of a tree I can't keep, I get a little jealous. Am I the only one.....?

keep it green,
Harry

How do shimpaku do there?
 

sfhellwig

Mame
Messages
192
Reaction score
1
Location
Pittsburg, KS
USDA Zone
6a
I would love to be able to grow Maples, RMJ,Scots Pine, Mugo pine, Ponderosa pine,White pine, Red pine,Norway spruce,Itoigawa Juniper, California Juniper,Olive,Larch,Hornbeam,Crataegus,Azalea and Redwood here in SW Florida.

But hey, we have the Gulf..:(

-dorothy

So what CAN you grow?:confused:

I haven't developed my trees far enuogh to find one I want but can't grow. I know there are a couple of types of bamboo I can't have and I wish my bananas had a longer season but I guess I am lucky with trees.

In Master Gardeners course they keep telling us we're in an area that can't grow anything really well. I guess at least we can grow most things half well.:D
 

cascade

Shohin
Messages
484
Reaction score
163
Location
Naples Florida
USDA Zone
10a
So what CAN you grow?:confused:

..

Australian Pine,Black Olive,Bougainvillea,Buttonwood,Crape Myrtle,Cypress,Elm,Ficus,Fukien Tea,Ilex,Jade,Lead tree,various junipers,JBP, Slash pine,Neea,Tamarind,Podocarpus and many more tropicals..

-dorothy
 

greerhw

Omono
Messages
1,978
Reaction score
13
Australian Pine,Black Olive,Bougainvillea,Buttonwood,Crape Myrtle,Cypress,Elm,Ficus,Fukien Tea,Ilex,Jade,Lead tree,various junipers,JBP, Slash pine,Neea,Tamarind,Podocarpus and many more tropicals..

-dorothy

Can you grow Pemphis ?

keep it green,
Harry
 

cascade

Shohin
Messages
484
Reaction score
163
Location
Naples Florida
USDA Zone
10a
Pemphis

Can you grow Pemphis ?

keep it green,
Harry

Harry,

good question. I was always told they would not work here. However, the people telling me that live further north of Naples (another 1 to 2 climate zones). We don't get really cold nights down here. The few times it gets a bit chilly I can easily protect a tree by giving it a big hug..:D

Seriously, I think I'll try. Have just to figure out where to get the Pemphis from.

-dorothy
 

rockm

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
9,734
Reaction score
12,637
Location
Fairfax Va.
USDA Zone
7
I rather think this is one of the issues North American bonsai has to get over to advance. Conifers are great, but they have dominated bonsai in America for some time. That's a shame. In any given area of the US, there are native species that are equal to, or are even superior to, native conifers.

There's a current of "you're not really serious about bonsai unless you have/own/collected a ponderosa/RMJ/cali-juni/pitch pine/name the macho needled species of your choice" in American bonsai. Too bad. There are deciduous/broadleafed evergreen species that offer as much promise as all those.

Live oak, willow oak, black cherry, tupelo (black gum and swamp), sheep laurel, pin oak, hackberry are only a few Eastern US species that can develop into world class bonsai.

Conifers may rule, but the crown rests uneasy.
 

Bonsai Nut

Nuttier than your average Nut
Messages
10,075
Reaction score
19,827
Location
Charlotte area, North Carolina
USDA Zone
8a
Best overall climate for bonsai in the US (in my opinion) is probably San Francisco Bay area.

Southern California is good, with the exception of cold hardy species that need a hard winter - certain oaks, maples, etc, and especially Japanese White Pines. However pretty much everything else thrives here, as long as you provide the proper protection for some of the more tender species like Japanese Maples.
 

mcpesq817

Omono
Messages
1,810
Reaction score
480
Location
VA
USDA Zone
7
I rather think this is one of the issues North American bonsai has to get over to advance. Conifers are great, but they have dominated bonsai in America for some time. That's a shame. In any given area of the US, there are native species that are equal to, or are even superior to, native conifers.

There's a current of "you're not really serious about bonsai unless you have/own/collected a ponderosa/RMJ/cali-juni/pitch pine/name the macho needled species of your choice" in American bonsai. Too bad. There are deciduous/broadleafed evergreen species that offer as much promise as all those.

Live oak, willow oak, black cherry, tupelo (black gum and swamp), sheep laurel, pin oak, hackberry are only a few Eastern US species that can develop into world class bonsai.

Conifers may rule, but the crown rests uneasy.

Having seen a few fantastic specimens of the deciduous trees mentioned, I would have to agree :D

Another tree, although a conifer, that deserves more mention is the bald cypress. They are starting to grow on me. I'd also love to see a black gum as a bonsai - I've got one in my backyard as a landscape tree and they are really nice looking trees.
 

greerhw

Omono
Messages
1,978
Reaction score
13
I rather think this is one of the issues North American bonsai has to get over to advance. Conifers are great, but they have dominated bonsai in America for some time. That's a shame. In any given area of the US, there are native species that are equal to, or are even superior to, native conifers.

There's a current of "you're not really serious about bonsai unless you have/own/collected a ponderosa/RMJ/cali-juni/pitch pine/name the macho needled species of your choice" in American bonsai. Too bad. There are deciduous/broadleafed evergreen species that offer as much promise as all those.

Live oak, willow oak, black cherry, tupelo (black gum and swamp), sheep laurel, pin oak, hackberry are only a few Eastern US species that can develop into world class bonsai.

Conifers may rule, but the crown rests uneasy.

They also dominate bonsai in Japan, it must be a conspiracy....:rolleyes:
I want my trees to have the look of being very old, D trees just can't pull that one off, but yamadori's can , because they are. I love shari, jin, narly and twisted by years of natures torture.There are few rules to Yamadori, D trees must have nebari, appropriate leaf to trunk ratio, shape that looks like a tree in nature. Requiring much more work and time to get it right. That's great for people with patience and love working towards that goal. That just doesn't fulfill my passion and the way I want my trees to look, and I spend a lot of time enjoying my trees, too.

keep it green,
Harry
 
Last edited:

rockm

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
9,734
Reaction score
12,637
Location
Fairfax Va.
USDA Zone
7
"We tend to want our trees to have the look of being very old, D trees just can't pull that one off, but yamadori's can"

You're not seeing quality deciduous yamadori stock then. Some species are very capable of pulling it off and then some. From Nick Lenz's apples to Vaughn Banting's water elms (not to mention deciduous conifers, larch and bald cypress), there is ample evidence that deciduous trees can be used just as effectively as any pine and project a feeling of age.

The perception that pines are more "macho" and more worthy than deciduous stock drives a certain market--not really a bad thing, but it can overshadow some really good things. Pines are deceitful, easily bent and manipulated :D Deciduous trees can't be rushed or faked. They reveal their engineering every year to everyone. They don't hide behind constant greenery and torqued and tweaked wiring.:D
 

greerhw

Omono
Messages
1,978
Reaction score
13
"We tend to want our trees to have the look of being very old, D trees just can't pull that one off, but yamadori's can"

You're not seeing quality deciduous yamadori stock then. Some species are very capable of pulling it off and then some.


I have never seen one, but if you say so I'll take your word for it and I'll keep my dime a dozen conifers.........:p

keep it green,
Harry
 

cquinn

Shohin
Messages
336
Reaction score
1
"We tend to want our trees to have the look of being very old, D trees just can't pull that one off, but yamadori's can"

You're not seeing quality deciduous yamadori stock then. Some species are very capable of pulling it off and then some.


I have never seen one, but if you say so I'll take your word for it and I'll keep my dime a dozen conifers.........:p

keep it green,
Harry

http://warrenhillbonsai.com/Gallery/Deciduous/Deciduous.html
 

greerhw

Omono
Messages
1,978
Reaction score
13
Nice trees, just like Walter's, but I'll keep my Yamadoris, Junipers and JBP's.

Keep it green,
Harry
 

rockm

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
9,734
Reaction score
12,637
Location
Fairfax Va.
USDA Zone
7
Poor Harry....:D Here's the tip of a very large iceberg...:D

http://crataegus.com/2008/12/07/sonoran-scrub-live-oak/
www.artofbonsai.org/feature_articles/thoughts.php
http://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/bonsai-f1/you-showed-me-yours-i-ll-show-you-mine-t1633.htm
http://bonsaisuperstore.com/items/bonsai-trees/oak-bonsai/oak-bonsai-003-detail.htm
http://bonsaisuperstore.com/items/bonsai-trees/oak-bonsai/oak-bonsai-002-detail.htm

These are mostly live oak. There are some pretty good trees besides these out there. I've seen them. Live oak is one of more than at least two dozen deciduous species that are vastly underused as bonsai in North America. They are not what Walter Pall is working with. They are not what "Japanophiles" in the US are working with. They are not trident maples or japanese maples.
 

greerhw

Omono
Messages
1,978
Reaction score
13
Poor Harry....:D Here's the tip of a very large iceberg...:D

http://crataegus.com/2008/12/07/sonoran-scrub-live-oak/
www.artofbonsai.org/feature_articles/thoughts.php
http://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/bonsai-f1/you-showed-me-yours-i-ll-show-you-mine-t1633.htm
http://bonsaisuperstore.com/items/bonsai-trees/oak-bonsai/oak-bonsai-003-detail.htm
http://bonsaisuperstore.com/items/bonsai-trees/oak-bonsai/oak-bonsai-002-detail.htm

These are mostly live oak. There are some pretty good trees besides these out there. I've seen them. Live oak is one of more than at least two dozen deciduous species that are vastly underused as bonsai in North America. They are not what Walter Pall is working with. They are not what "Japanophiles" in the US are working with. They are not trident maples or japanese maples.

Looking at D trees is like looking at the Victoria's Secret Catalog, looking at Conifers is like looking at Playboy Magazine.

keep it green,
Harry
 

Redwing

Yamadori
Messages
93
Reaction score
3
Location
Pacific NW
USDA Zone
8
Looking at D trees is like looking at the Victoria's Secret Catalog, looking at Conifers is like looking at Playboy Magazine.

keep it green,
Harry

Now, now -- it happens from time to time, but not all artists airbrush their bonsai photographs.
 
Top Bottom