Cork bark pine repotting

[Paulkellum]

I know it's not the best time but the 10 day forecast has it right at 65 every night ie great root growing temp. It's super slow draining and holding water to long. I just feel it will stay to wet this winter. Do you think I should wait until spring or repot in and not really trim roots until spring. Thanks for any help you can give

 

[nathanbs]

looks healthy i would wait. You sure its a cork bark? it looks like a fairly old regular japanese black pine.

 

[0soyoung]

I know it's not the best time but the 10 day forecast has it right at 65 every night ie great root growing temp. It's super slow draining and holding water to long. I just feel it will stay to wet this winter. Do you think I should wait until spring or repot in and not really trim roots until spring. Thanks for any help you can give

I don't think it is particularly risky to repot pines now. In fact it might actually be the best time to do it. I also think about the riskiest situation is keeping any tree in mucky retentive soil. Roots must have oxygen to survive and die fairly rapidly when suffocated. Have you read this BNut thread?

Were I in your shoes, I would not hesitate to get all that muck out of the roots now. One can use soaking, root combing, and jetting (from a garden hose) to remove it totally with minimal root damage. It might take an hour or more to get it done, I suppose. Then comb and trim the roots as you would normally in repotting and put it in a good draining medium (your favorite inorganic mix). Fertilize and water immediately after potting.

You may need to put the tree in partial shade for a week or two if the sun is intense and the air is dry. You also may need to take a little extra care to protect the roots from freezing this coming winter - see Brent Walston's article, Fall Repotting.

 

[markyscott]

Whats it planted in? If its not too heavy to start with, it may not require a full repot. Over the summer, fertilizer and fines tend to build up on the soil surface. Use a pair of bent tweezers and scrape the top inch or so of soil, drawing the tweezers radially away from the trunk. Replace with fresh soil. See if this solves your problem with drainage.

Scott

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

It looks healthy, I would absolutely not risk it just because it takes a few extra minutes to water. This time of year, that's fairly common, I need to make quite a few passes with the hose to be sure water leaches throughout.

Get through the last of the warm weather, and it will not be much of an issue this winter. In March, it will be safe.

 

[Paulkellum]

looks healthy i would wait. You sure its a cork bark? it looks like a fairly old regular japanese black pine.

It's a little deceptive as the bottom right above soil line has bulked up over past few years but it did have the small base and large trunk line that cork barks have. Not 100% sure would appreciate any help figuring it out.

 

[nathanbs]

It's a little deceptive as the bottom right above soil line has bulked up over past few years but it did have the small base and large trunk line that cork barks have. Not 100% sure would appreciate any help figuring it out.

usually corks of that size or age are super corky already. ive had little 3-5 year old cork barks full of corking. it may be a different variety that is not as severe which would be nice as they get kind of out of control in my opinion.

 

[october]

I don't think it is particularly risky to repot pines now. In fact it might actually be the best time to do it. I also think about the riskiest situation is keeping any tree in mucky retentive soil. Roots must have oxygen to survive and die fairly rapidly when suffocated. Have you read this BNut thread?

Were I in your shoes, I would not hesitate to get all that muck out of the roots now. One can use soaking, root combing, and jetting (from a garden hose) to remove it totally with minimal root damage. It might take an hour or more to get it done, I suppose. Then comb and trim the roots as you would normally in repotting and put it in a good draining medium (your favorite inorganic mix). Fertilize and water immediately after potting.

You may need to put the tree in partial shade for a week or two if the sun is intense and the air is dry. You also may need to take a little extra care to protect the roots from freezing this coming winter - see Brent Walston's article, Fall Repotting.

Osoyoung.. Why would you suggest these things to the op? I have to disagree with your post and believe Brian's post is exactly what should be done. Which is nothing.

The trees is obviously healthy, why traumatize the tree for no reason. Also, jetting and soaking? These things can be done with yews and other trees, but pines you need to be more careful. Being especially careful not to bare root. Especially out of season. Also, we do not know if there is muck like soil in there. It actually might not be that bad, just a little compact in certain spots.

As Brian said, it is best to wait until Spring unless there is a problem. Telling this poster that you would take this tree out of the pot, jet or soak it then repot and fertilize immediately, is just bad advice. Why fertilize immediately? Especially when the general guideline is to not fertilize after a repot. Especially in cases of sick trees. This is not the case with this tree though.

How many slow draining, cork bark pines have you repotted in Fall?

Rob

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

How many slow draining, cork bark pines have you repotted in Fall?

If it helps the OP's decision process, I have 5 slow draining corkbark black pines on my benches, and will not be repotting any of them in the Fall...might not repot any of them next spring! I repotted my 36" tall Kyokko Yatsabusa this spring, after 4 years in a little 16" round pot and realized halfway in that I could have scrapped off the top 1", topped it off with new soil, and gone another 4 years.

Here's another one I repotted this spring; probably an Aka-Me. This one drained REALLY slow, but looking at the root ball, aerating it would have probably done the trick; combing it out ripped a lot of fine roots away. It did great this year, but might have done even better:


And here is a Taihei I repotted this spring, from a 7 gallon nursery can into it's first pot. It was in that can for several years before bought it in '09 (maybe '08?). It wasn't even close to root-bound in 5+ years...but I was ready to move it to a bonsai pot:


Point is, take your time. It's a nice tree, and sometimes the right course of action is to simply enjoy the tree until the right time to do the work. Then, be sure the work selected is the right course of action.

 

[0soyoung]

The trees is obviously healthy, why traumatize the tree for no reason.

It's super slow draining and holding water to long.

I think this describes a situation in which it is a good reason to act rather than do nothing. All dead trees were healthy at one time. Suffocated/drowned roots make dead or at least severely weakened trees. The signs often don’t show in the foliage until it is too late.

… we do not know if there is muck like soil in there. It actually might not be that bad, just a little compact in certain spots.

Quite true. The OP’s description implied it to me and I assumed it. Clearly, though, this was the context of my response. It was clear to you, it undoubtedly was to the OP as well, and it was also clear to Brian, who has subsequently stated that what OP thinks to be a problem with water retention and drainage is probably not a problem at all. The OP has thus been informed of circumstances, options, and consequences with which to decide what to do/not do.

Also, jetting and soaking? These things can be done with yews and other trees, but pines you need to be more careful. Being especially careful not to bare root. Especially out of season.

We aren’t talking about recently collected yamadori here. This is a fairly young (bonsai) nursery stock specimen. I have done exactly this in August with mugo, ponderosa, and eastern white pine nursery stock that had been severely neglected and/or stuck in B&B muck. All did better than just survive. I’ve also had trees, including pines, spruce, and fir as well as magnolias, in similar states to which I did nothing but ‘wait until spring’. A mugo and a fir died and otherwise they fared poorly until I got them out of the muck. To me, the evidence recommends getting rid of all muck ASAP (LET MY ROOTS BREATH!!).

Why fertilize immediately? Especially when the general guideline is to not fertilize after a repot.

I’ve always found this to be curious/strange advice. It appears to come from years ago when bonsai was done with organic soils and possibly also involves incorrect inference based on fertilizer burn with very small seedlings. Regardless, organic soils generally have most essential minerals readily available and have relatively high CEC (which means essential minerals from previous application of fertilizer tend to be retained). Hence, “don’t fertilize after a repot” might be good advice if you are using organic soil.

But, I use and I advised the OP to use an inorganic substrate so the OP’s tree will no longer have any drainage and/or water retention issues. Inorganic soils or substrates do not have any mineral nutrients and so one must ‘fertilize’ for the tree to have the minerals it needs to grow new roots and replace lost chlorophyll.