Corylus "Contorta" Avellana #2

ConorDash

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So here is something you'll either love or hate! Seriously.

A cheap bit of material I couldn't help buying, along with a brother. Some pics in this thread, along with a big one bought previously:

One was repoted and this was one cut down and not repoted, both experiments. I decided to work on this tree today.
Here is how it went:

Before:
DSC_1876 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr

DSC_1875 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr
After:
DSC_1881 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr

DSC_1880 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr

DSC_1879 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr​

If you haven't guessed, the goal is literati with this tree. It will look sickly, struggling to survive. It will have a number of jins poking above the foliage and branch line of broken branches from the wind, or ones the tree has given up on as it tries to survive. It won't have heavy branching or ramification as it never manages to grow enough before something breaks.. The branches will be twisted and gnarly as they've been beaten by the wind.

Interested in people's thoughts. This is a deciduous tree, not a conifer. Its a fun little project, I think it will look cool :)
 

ConorDash

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You may notice, 60% up the long trunk, I have cut back the bark and cambium layer, killing the top. I've removed all the leaves rather than let them die off. So I have reduced the trunk but not removed it. I am going to make a few jins around the tree, there are a few more dead bits around it, one has the guy wire on it. Ill strip back bark in the future and maybe rough up to make look more natural. The whole top section will remain and be white, once bark is stripped.. I may reduce it in future but for now I will keep all of it. I like the top bit of the tree, very cool looking. Am curious to see how it looks in white, once stripped. No doubt a number of the bits will break, I am expecting it...

Removed other unnecessary bits, wired to move the branches (not to put movement in to them, as you can see, it needs NO man made help with movement in the branches). I have a new leader at the top that will take over to produce taper in the tip. Having removed all of that top energy supply, it should back bud and give me some more branches too.

Unfortunately the main long trunk looks very bad in 2D, but it is much more interesting in person. The species provides the curves and movement and wild look.
I have fed heavily with organic pellets now, it is potted in a very sandy heavy mix, but won't be being repoted, it is happy in it. I want loads of growth from it now, but it is a slow growing species. Hell, I may have killed it but it should be ok. Has plenty of leaves.
 

ConorDash

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Any comments at all? Good or bad, I don’t mind.
 

Forsoothe!

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Destination: Disappointment City. The dead wood, if that's what you want to call it, is fragile and I'm not convinced you can keep deadwood more than a couple years. It's like weeping Elm and Mulberry, punky and disintegrates muy pronto.
 
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penumbra

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Enjoy the plants and I have one myself, but I see no way you can make an interesting bonsai from one. I think they are only attractive when they are bare.
 

ConorDash

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Cool trees. I reckon they could be interesting bonsai.
Enjoy the plants and I have one myself, but I see no way you can make an interesting bonsai from one. I think they are only attractive when they are bare.

This is 1 tree, not 2 different ones lol. It was a before and after. Was wondering about thoughts on how it was styled.

Destination: Disappointment City. The dead wood, if that's what you want to call it, is fragile and I'm not convinced you can keep deadwood more than a couple years. It's like weeping Elm and Mulberry, punky and disintegrates muy pronto.

Ok thats alright though, if its too fragile which Im already thinking it is, ill cut back to a stronger bit, just few inchs of it above the "chop" mark, and keep that instead. No big deal.
Any thoughts on the styling of it?
 

Woocash

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Hi mate I love these trees. They make such interesting features and I‘ve got them on my wish list. I’m struggling to see the overall design with yours though, if I’m honest. For a start, you want literati, but most of the foliage mass is down low which distorts the future image for me and makes it tough to visualise. For the deadwood to look realistic you would almost need to form a lower, denser canopy then kill a section of it off IMO because it looks almost too...plonked. And lastly, the section between the top mass of foliage and the bottom mass is too long and straight, relatively speaking - at least from the first angle.

I like the idea of a literati one of these though, with a tangled mass cascading down from the apex or suchlike. Then you really could showcase it as having some human intervention. Most bonsai I’ve seen just look like their usual habit really.

Have you got a virtual in your mind or have you drawn one to help guide your direction?
 

penumbra

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This is 1 tree, not 2 different ones lol. It was a before and after. Was wondering about thoughts on how it was styled.
Yeah, I could see that. I just couldn't see a bonsai style emerging. Don't get me wrong as I wish you the best on this journey, it is simply something I am not willing to spend my time on. I view these plants simply as botanical oddities and appreciate them as such. Mine is about 3-1/2 feet tall and wide and as it is very cold hardy I keep it in a pot. I enjoyed it immensely all winter and spring, but I will likely move it to a less prominent place soon. I would have already done this except a recent surgery prevents me from moving things about at present.
Still, I wish you and your plant the best and hope you find what you are looking for. I originally bought mine to bonsai but opted not to when I studied its growth habits, such as its response to pruning, etc.
 

JoeR

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I've never worked with this species but I've almost picked one up on several occasions. In my opinion, I would remove the tall branch. For such a contorted cultivar, this section is overall very straight and uninteresting. From there, if you're determined on a literati, you may grow a new leader with more interest. However, given the nature of the species, i think it would be best to proceed with a windswept design, as the nature of the branch growth is already well adapted to the windswept style. This is appropriate given the other comments saying it is best shown out of leaf, where you can most appreciate the windswept aesthetic. Hard to see the branches, but you can use Google to get some ideas and go from there- starting by lowering the first right branch. Looks like you're good with wiring so should be no problem

Maybe even an informal upright with branches trailing almost to the pot.
 

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AlainK

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Any comments at all? Good or bad, I don’t mind.

OK, you asked for it ;)

- : The leaves are big, not so nice-looking, and not easilty reduced.
- : The branches can go at any unexpected angle, wiring them is useless.
- : The natural port of this tree is rather bushy, even multi-trunk.

-/+ : the main interest of this variety is the golden catkins hanging vertically from twisted grey branches at the end of the winter. Not sure it would be more spectacular at the top of a long trunk, twisted or not.

Of course, one might think differently, and even post one or two pictures of Coryllus "bonsai" (contorta or not) but to me, hazelnut is not a good candidate for bonsai.

It's an interseting patio/garden plant, but there are many species that are much more rewarding...
 

Woocash

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Sorry to bust in on your thread, Conor, but

hazelnut is not a good candidate for bonsai.
Hopefully I may have stumbled on something beneficial, then again, they may just be waiting to explode. These two were dug up as seedlings and stuck in a pot of sand about 7 years ago and forgotten about, long before I had any inclination to bonsai them. This spring I took them out of the sand and potted them in a free draining mix and they have done well since but still not gone mad.9277410A-C0B4-4EC9-8830-305B3A9C17C1.jpeg

The thing I found interesting about them in the sand was the leaf size reduction and tightness of nodes. So far they have maintained the traits. Average leaf size on plant and six/seven years unpruned growth.7C2BAFE8-5325-4C9B-BF7F-E790650063A1.jpeg778D6C36-5C3E-4B95-998A-189246C6804A.jpeg

They may just be waiting to regain vigour again, but we’ll see.
 

Forsoothe!

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I believe the original post and discussion was specifically about the contorted variety and the fact that it does not lend itself to management other than clip & grow and viewing in winter key because the leaves look unruly, at best.
 

penumbra

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I believe the original post and discussion was specifically about the contorted variety and the fact that it does not lend itself to management other than clip & grow and viewing in winter key because the leaves look unruly, at best.
I would add that the plant suckers profusely and the plant has a mind of its own.
 

Woocash

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I believe the original post and discussion was specifically about the contorted variety and the fact that it does not lend itself to management other than clip & grow and viewing in winter key because the leaves look unruly, at best.
I realise that, but I was replying to Alain’s post (contorta or not). Still it is the same species. If leaves and habit can be reduced and slowed for the species version, in certain circumstances, maybe it could relate to ‘contorta’ as well.
 

Forsoothe!

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The leaves are ugly and only a curiosity that is tolerated because it looks different in the landscape. Controlling the appearance of trees is the primary function and goal of bonsai . No control, no nada.
 

ConorDash

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My apologies for being so late to reply guys. Appreciate all your replies!
@Woocash @penumbra @AlainK @JoeR @Forsoothe!

Hi mate I love these trees. They make such interesting features and I‘ve got them on my wish list. I’m struggling to see the overall design with yours though, if I’m honest. For a start, you want literati, but most of the foliage mass is down low which distorts the future image for me and makes it tough to visualise. For the deadwood to look realistic you would almost need to form a lower, denser canopy then kill a section of it off IMO because it looks almost too...plonked. And lastly, the section between the top mass of foliage and the bottom mass is too long and straight, relatively speaking - at least from the first angle.

I like the idea of a literati one of these though, with a tangled mass cascading down from the apex or suchlike. Then you really could showcase it as having some human intervention. Most bonsai I’ve seen just look like their usual habit really.

Have you got a virtual in your mind or have you drawn one to help guide your direction?

Yes, good point. The long section is more interesting, unfortunately the picture made a terrible case of making it look long and straight.. its long but far from straight! Bad angle.
Ill put together a virt of my idea, but I agree with you, i need to rethink.

Yeah, I could see that. I just couldn't see a bonsai style emerging. Don't get me wrong as I wish you the best on this journey, it is simply something I am not willing to spend my time on. I view these plants simply as botanical oddities and appreciate them as such. Mine is about 3-1/2 feet tall and wide and as it is very cold hardy I keep it in a pot. I enjoyed it immensely all winter and spring, but I will likely move it to a less prominent place soon. I would have already done this except a recent surgery prevents me from moving things about at present.
Still, I wish you and your plant the best and hope you find what you are looking for. I originally bought mine to bonsai but opted not to when I studied its growth habits, such as its response to pruning, etc.

No worries, thanks. This is a cheap bit of material I bought, have a few similar. One still fully grown which I am thinking to cut down and go more informal broom, something more plain. I love how weird and odd this species is, so I am determined to do something interesting with it :).

I've never worked with this species but I've almost picked one up on several occasions. In my opinion, I would remove the tall branch. For such a contorted cultivar, this section is overall very straight and uninteresting. From there, if you're determined on a literati, you may grow a new leader with more interest. However, given the nature of the species, i think it would be best to proceed with a windswept design, as the nature of the branch growth is already well adapted to the windswept style. This is appropriate given the other comments saying it is best shown out of leaf, where you can most appreciate the windswept aesthetic. Hard to see the branches, but you can use Google to get some ideas and go from there- starting by lowering the first right branch. Looks like you're good with wiring so should be no problem

Maybe even an informal upright with branches trailing almost to the pot.

Thanks for the post. Yes, the picture really makes the long section look terrible! It really isn't that straight and boring. Ill get another pic.
The aim is to appreciate without leaves, fully on board with that. The catkins are the focus really. The wiring was only to move branches, no movement or curves required to put in to the branches, as you can see. Thanks for the compliment on wiring, i think thats the first I've ever had lol.

Well I have one other of these which I think will be informal upright, I just wanted to make use of this big long trunk on this one, so will think about that.
 

ConorDash

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OK, you asked for it ;)

- : The leaves are big, not so nice-looking, and not easilty reduced.
- : The branches can go at any unexpected angle, wiring them is useless.
- : The natural port of this tree is rather bushy, even multi-trunk.

-/+ : the main interest of this variety is the golden catkins hanging vertically from twisted grey branches at the end of the winter. Not sure it would be more spectacular at the top of a long trunk, twisted or not.

Of course, one might think differently, and even post one or two pictures of Coryllus "bonsai" (contorta or not) but to me, hazelnut is not a good candidate for bonsai.

It's an interseting patio/garden plant, but there are many species that are much more rewarding...

No, this is what i want, thank you for the post :)
Yes, big leaves and near to impossible to reduce.. so, 1. Would be nice to accept that challenge, but 2, completely do not expect to do so! It is all about the winter image for this tree and I am on board with that.
The wire was only to redirect branches, not for movement, wiring for movement or putting curves in, is completely pointless! lol
Could you explain that third one? Natrual port of the tree?

So, the contorted virus in the species makes it completely great for bonsai (with management) but you are right, EVERYTHING ELSE about this tree, makes it not ideal for bonsai. But, that doesnt stop me. i like a good bit of rule breaking from time to time. This is a fun project, can go wild, no rules.
I have many of those other more rewarding trees, i can multi task :)

I would add that the plant suckers profusely and the plant has a mind of its own.

It does indeed, profusely. BonsaiNut has posted a pic previously of his, it suckers like mad.

The leaves are ugly and only a curiosity that is tolerated because it looks different in the landscape. Controlling the appearance of trees is the primary function and goal of bonsai . No control, no nada.

Agreed, unfortunately. Its leaves are very large.. but they are only needed to provide energy, they do not stay on long then its all about winter image and catkins. More energy gained from big ugly leaves, better looking catkins and hazelnuts too for the winter image.
This is a fun project mate, all fun. No rules.
And ALL bonsai, to a certain extent, if following the naturalistic style, should be out of control. Letting a tree go its direction and be wild, in a controlled way is a good thing in my mind and many professional artists, post many trees showing this.
Allowing the tree to "style itself".

These are excellent examples, which I have looked through before when researching. The species is very rare as a bonsai, and these pics are probably some of the best in the world. The trick with them is that most have amazing nebari.. which is difficult to achieve with this species, they don't create it naturally. None of mine have a good nebari.. Might look to create it in future. Maybe. That second to last pic has very small leaves... very impressive, whomever and how ever that was achieved. Might have weakened the tree significantly, to achieve that.

The others, informal upright and broom, I dont think would be that difficult to achieve.. except the nebari.
 

AlainK

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"cishepard" has convinced me one can make a decent bonsai with this crappy species :rolleyes: 😄
 
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