Brian Van Fleet
Pretty Fly for a Bonsai Guy
Did you try a new Chinese takeout place? These posts read like a collection of odd fortune cookies.?
Crumbly Akadama
- Thread starter pbrown00
- Start date
Velodog2
Chumono
Thank you! Perfect example. Theory presented, yet it doesn’t appear to apply to akadame. Must be something incomplete somewhere. We can speculate but I doubt any of us knows why that is actually the case.
coh
Imperial Masterpiece
Do you think it's possible that Vance has been writing fortune cookies for a living? It would make sense...
coh
Imperial Masterpiece
Well, I think that's why akadama is usually mixed with components (pumice and lava) that do not lose their structure, so the entire soil mass doesn't collapse. Though I know some people use 100% akadama for deciduous trees, I haven't been brave enough to try that...and probably never will.
I get the argument against akadama, but the simple fact is that it has been used in bonsai for a long time, especially in Japan. So this "soil collapse" that people worry about, apparently isn't a huge problem. Now, I have heard that a lot of the akadama that is available these days isn't as good as stuff that used to be available, that it is too soft and breaks down too quickly. That would change things in a big way if true. I started using the stuff about 4-5 years ago and some trees have been through a repotting cycle...I didn't find any big problems with the root systems or evidence of massive akadama breakdown despite our harsh climate with many freeze/thaw cycles each season. But, I also cannot say that my trees look much better or that the akadama has made a significant improvement to root systems.
The above is something that Ryan Neil talks about a lot. His belief is that the akadama available today isn't as good as what he was able to import a bunch of years ago, which is why he is looking seriously at DE as a possible replacement for when his akadama stock runs out. Maybe all of you using NAPA 8822 are ahead of the game in that respect.
M. Frary
Bonsai Godzilla
I already knew that.
It isn't so large it takes up much room for roots.
The roots on my trees in D.E. are super fine.
The stuff seems to last forever.
No need to change out old soil from the center of a rootball once a trees been changed over. Just trim the long roots off. So no need to risk a tree by half bare rooting it every other year or however often they do that.
Insects hate it so no bugs in the soil.
Cheap.
Readily available.
It works fine by itself especially for water loving trees like tamarack,elm and hawthorn.
Add lava or pumice or both and its kick ass.
D.E.,Lava and Pumice could be called Godzilla mix.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
Hence forth and forever more NAPA 882 , Lava and/or Pumice shall be called Godzilla Mix. I would still add composted Pine Bark to it, but that's just me.
Paul F.
Shohin
I just bought this akadama and Im pretty sure its junk. I finally found a bonsai garden 2 hours away from my house which, holy sh*t, its incredible. Its called Miami Tropical Bonsai. They have $45,000 trees there! So sick - if you are ever in the Homestead, FL area, its a must see..
anyways... Is this stuff junk ($20 for a 5 gallon bag)? First time I've ever laid hands on akadama..
Thanks!
"
anyways... Is this stuff junk ($20 for a 5 gallon bag)? First time I've ever laid hands on akadama..
Thanks!
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Brian Van Fleet
Pretty Fly for a Bonsai Guy
Paul F.
Shohin
Ok, so you can even crush it even when its dry? If that's the case, then sweet! I didn't buy junk! Thanks!
pbrown00
Mame
Yeah, I think the idea (which I also just learned) is that the roots aren't going to be crushing the akadama like your fingers would, so it can keep its form in a pot for at least a year or two.
Akadama is expensive in the US because of the cost of shipping. There is akadama in Oregon, just no one has bothered to mine it. It also exists in Australia.
It is great to use in bonsai pots. Because it DOES break down over time. When it does, it’s time to repot. When fresh, it encourages fast root growth. Roots grow to seek water. Roots that are kept too wet have no need to grow.
Trees generally repotted in the spring. When they start growing in fresh akadama, there’s lots of air (oxygen) and enough water, so they grow rapidly. Later, when the foliage is grown out, the tree needs more water to support that foliage. Akadama that breaks down retains more water. So the soil changes to be more water retentive, right at the time when the tree needs more water!
It’s not magic, but darn close.
Trees in bonsai pots need periodic repotting. The need to have the old roots removed to make room for new roots to grow. Just as the foliage needs to be cut back every so often.
This cycle of let grow and cut back, IS bonsai! Using akadama makes it easier by having a soil that changes it’s characteristics over time.
All that said...
No you absolutely have to use it? No.
Would I use it in a grow box where I want lots of growth? No. The nature of akadama retaining water increases over time, keeping roots wetter than with other soils. As I said, wet roots don’t grow as much as roots that are less wet. The less wet roots are stimulated to see out water. The grow box will have lots more volume for there to be lush root growth. A bonsai pot is much smaller, so a soil mix that can hold more water for an increasing foliage mass is beneficial.
Would I have to water more often if I use akadama? No, you would have to water less often.
It is great to use in bonsai pots. Because it DOES break down over time. When it does, it’s time to repot. When fresh, it encourages fast root growth. Roots grow to seek water. Roots that are kept too wet have no need to grow.
Trees generally repotted in the spring. When they start growing in fresh akadama, there’s lots of air (oxygen) and enough water, so they grow rapidly. Later, when the foliage is grown out, the tree needs more water to support that foliage. Akadama that breaks down retains more water. So the soil changes to be more water retentive, right at the time when the tree needs more water!
It’s not magic, but darn close.
Trees in bonsai pots need periodic repotting. The need to have the old roots removed to make room for new roots to grow. Just as the foliage needs to be cut back every so often.
This cycle of let grow and cut back, IS bonsai! Using akadama makes it easier by having a soil that changes it’s characteristics over time.
All that said...
No you absolutely have to use it? No.
Would I use it in a grow box where I want lots of growth? No. The nature of akadama retaining water increases over time, keeping roots wetter than with other soils. As I said, wet roots don’t grow as much as roots that are less wet. The less wet roots are stimulated to see out water. The grow box will have lots more volume for there to be lush root growth. A bonsai pot is much smaller, so a soil mix that can hold more water for an increasing foliage mass is beneficial.
Would I have to water more often if I use akadama? No, you would have to water less often.
Paul F.
Shohin
Great Explanation.. thank you..
Velodog2
Chumono
The thing about akadama I’ve noticed is that even after it has quite broken down it still drains very quickly. I don’t know why but I know that poor drainage is the knock against compacted broken down soil in general. Applying what I think I know about perching height vs particle size however would still imply a relatively large portion of the soil would be saturated when the particles are very small even if it drains well. I don’t want to go too far into speculative territory though and will just stick with the original observation. The classic vertical clear tube filled with soil experiment could answer a lot of questions here.
Cosmos
Shohin
Here is my simple question (I am a neutral observer, will likely never buy akamada in my lifetime).
Why is it that when akadama breaks down over time, it's great because it "retains more water", but when any other type of soil particle (Turface, pumice, perlite, fuller's earth, etc.) breaks down, it's bad and impedes good drainage?
Why is it that when akadama breaks down over time, it's great because it "retains more water", but when any other type of soil particle (Turface, pumice, perlite, fuller's earth, etc.) breaks down, it's bad and impedes good drainage?
markyscott
Imperial Masterpiece
markyscott
Imperial Masterpiece
Looks normal to me. I think you’ll find in your climate that it will persist in the pot just fine anyway.
S
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
You have to go to the story of the King's New Clothes. It would seem there are two subjects within the bonsai community that are sacrosanct The pinching of Junipers and the use of Akadama. No matter the logic and the strength of the arguments contrary to either of the two subjects it seems to make no difference. There are some sources that have sold their souls to maintain these two specious concepts, and will pillory anyone who opposes them.
markyscott
Imperial Masterpiece
Thanks Vance for reminding me why I should not participate in soil debates. They’re exhausting and inevitably devolve into anecdotes, innuendo and ad hominem attacks. I personally reject both the notion that good trees cannot be grown in akadama and the proposal that you must use akadama to have good trees. When I contribute to these discussions, however rarely, I attempt to do so in a way that objectively characterizes my experience and understanding. Folks can do whatever they like with the information. I’ve not attacked or made any unfounded arguments that I cannot support with factual evidence. I have less than zero care for what soil people use in their bonsai pots until I buy a tree and it ends up in my garden. At that point I know exactly what works for me.
Scott
Paul F.
Shohin
I re-repotted two BRT's yesterday, one with 2 parts lava, 1 part turface, 1 part perlite and 1 part pine bark fines. The other is with the same mix but i added 2 parts akadama. Do you think there be a difference? And even if there was, would I be able to tell before the next re-pot?
markyscott
Imperial Masterpiece
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