Crumbly Akadama

[Velodog2]

You have to go to the story of the King's New Clothes. It would seem there are two subjects within the bonsai community that are sacrosanct The pinching of Junipers and the use of Akadama. No matter the logic and the strength of the arguments contrary to either of the two subjects it seems to make no difference. There are some sources that have sold their souls to maintain these two specious concepts, and will pillory anyone who opposes them.

You continue to say things of this nature and I continue to counter with my actual experience thus far which is that the clothes are real and lovely. I am an engineer living an evidence based (as the saying goes these days) existence, as well as a bonsai grower with 30 years experience. I admitted I have only 2 years experience with akadama but I can see a clear difference so far. I also am carefully watching for the other shoe to drop - there are likely downsides I’ve not yet experienced and methods for optimizing it’s use I’m not yet aware of. My experiences are all I’ll claim.

It’s very odd stuff that seems to defy conventions and makes one question assumptions about bonsai soil requirements. Yes it breaks down relatively quickly, yet despite this It still drains very quickly and my trees are happy. That’s the data. Come up with theories to support it, don’t do it the other way around by denying the data because it doesn’t support the theories.

Is this where we start flinging dirt?

 

[coh]

Thanks Vance for reminding me why I should not participate in soil debates. They’re exhausting and inevitably devolve into anecdotes, innuendo and ad hominem attacks. I personally reject both the notion that good trees cannot be grown in akadama and the proposal that you must use akadama to have good trees. When I contribute to these discussions, however rarely, I attempt to do so in a way that objectively characterizes my experience and understanding. Folks can do whatever they like with the information. I’ve not attacked or made any unfounded arguments that I cannot support with factual evidence. I have less than zero care for what soil people use in their bonsai pots until I buy a tree and it ends up in my garden. At that point I know exactly what works for me.

Scott

Yeah...pretty much.

I mean, look at all the professionals and their students (here and in Japan) who use akadama, and look at their trees. That is proof that it is good stuff.

That said, just because it's good stuff doesn't mean it's necessary to have good/healthy trees. I always go back to Julian Adams who grows his trees in 80% turface. At least one of those trees won an award in one of the National Exhibitions.

So use what works for you.

Personally, I've gradually moved over to a "Boon" mix and my trees look healthier. But that could just be because my overall skills (watering, fertilizing, etc) have improved. I'm interested in trying one of the DE products as I'd really like to cut costs and also not have to rely on something shipped in from another country, something whose quality can vary and that could be blocked from getting in to the country at any time.

 

[Paul F.]

I’ve never tried comparing those two mixes. I’ll let you tell us after you repot.

S

I'm just wondering if I'll notice sooner like before re-potting. Both trees were defoliated the same day so maybe I can see the difference as it starts growing new leaves. Ill keep an eye out and see..

 

[coh]

I'm just wondering if I'll notice sooner like before re-potting. Both trees were defoliated the same day so maybe I can see the difference as it starts growing new leaves. Ill keep an eye out and see..

I'll share the "results" of a little experiment I started a few years ago after one of these soil wars. I took a bunch of trident maple seedlings and planted them out into different soil mixtures. One was coarse Boon mix, one was fine boon mix (sifted to retain turface-sized particles), one was turface/bark/granite (I think) and the last was a potting soil mix. I think I used 3 or 4 plants in each group. I measured their heights and recorded the info, then put them out on the benches and waited. ALl plants were treated the same in terms of exposure and fertilization.

Initially the plants in the potting soil grew most vigorously (perhaps not a surprise as it holds the most nutrients). Unfortunately...we had some unusual weather (a really cold winter in particular) and all the plants suffered significant dieback. After that I kind of lost interest in the experiment. Eventually it came to be time to repot the plants. I couldn't really make out any obvious differences in the top growth - either amount, health, etc. But where I noticed a difference was in the root systems. The plants that were in the coarse boon mix had "best" (subjective definition) looking root systems and the turface mix was the "worst". Unfortunately that was a couple of years ago and I didn't take photos or good notes, so I don't really remember any other details.

Hope you have better luck with your experiment, though it is just about impossible to draw any meaningful conclusions from a sample size of 2.

 

[Paul F.]

I'll share the "results" of a little experiment I started a few years ago after one of these soil wars. I took a bunch of trident maple seedlings and planted them out into different soil mixtures. One was coarse Boon mix, one was fine boon mix (sifted to retain turface-sized particles), one was turface/bark/granite (I think) and the last was a potting soil mix. I think I used 3 or 4 plants in each group. I measured their heights and recorded the info, then put them out on the benches and waited. ALl plants were treated the same in terms of exposure and fertilization.

Initially the plants in the potting soil grew most vigorously (perhaps not a surprise as it holds the most nutrients). Unfortunately...we had some unusual weather (a really cold winter in particular) and all the plants suffered significant dieback. After that I kind of lost interest in the experiment. Eventually it came to be time to repot the plants. I couldn't really make out any obvious differences in the top growth - either amount, health, etc. But where I noticed a difference was in the root systems. The plants that were in the coarse boon mix had "best" (subjective definition) looking root systems and the turface mix was the "worst". Unfortunately that was a couple of years ago and I didn't take photos or good notes, so I don't really remember any other details.

Hope you have better luck with your experiment, though it is just about impossible to draw any meaningful conclusions from a sample size of 2.

I agree. I probably wont be able to tel with 2 trees.. I was just wondering if akadama is indeed better than anything else. Im a complete novice so dont know much and its not really available in my area. I just started an experiment with Japanese Black Pines. I have a bunch in regular potting soil, some in a turface bonsai mix (perlite, pine bark, turface and lava), some with half potting mix and half bonsai mix and lastly I just sowed a bunch in akadama fines and Napa Oil dry fines with a schmidge of potting mix. I doubt there is any difference but I was losing a bunch to damp off until I just left them in full sun and lost a lot less. Im still curious to see if there is any difference.

 

[Velodog2]

Ooooh this is my first soil war! Lol. I went to a demo with a well known pro today and he was looking at one of my maples after and suggested a more water-rententive soil. An amusing exchange followed where he thoroughly endorsed akadama while acknowledging its controversial nature.

 

[Adair M]

I agree. I probably wont be able to tel with 2 trees.. I was just wondering if akadama is indeed better than anything else. Im a complete novice so dont know much and its not really available in my area. I just started an experiment with Japanese Black Pines. I have a bunch in regular potting soil, some in a turface bonsai mix (perlite, pine bark, turface and lava), some with half potting mix and half bonsai mix and lastly I just sowed a bunch in akadama fines and Napa Oil dry fines with a schmidge of potting mix. I doubt there is any difference but I was losing a bunch to damp off until I just left them in full sun and lost a lot less. Im still curious to see if there is any difference.

May I add that Boon Mix is used when putting trees in bonsai pots. Because of the limited volume available, it’s best to use a high quality soil. When growing out rough stock, we generally use a coarser soil with a higher pumice content to encourage more root growth. And, admittedly, akadama is expensive.

So, a bit of common sense can be applied. Use your expensive Boon Mix (aka Frank Mix, aka APL, or premixed Akoi, or premixed Clay King) for your best trees in bonsai pots. And use less expensive soils for trees in training until such time they reach the beginning of the refinement stage. It is at that point when the characteristics of akadama make ramification easier to achieve.

 

[Maloghurst]

I personally use diatomaceous earth (Napa oil dry) with decomposted pine bark mixed in and works fine. But I love this old school video from the 80’s of “bonsai masters of japan” of course they use all akadama but as you can see in this video they use a very big size on the bottom for drainage, a medium size in the middle and A smaller one on top. Also they mention in this video that the pine he works on has not been repotted for 7 years. Based on this method used by bonsai masters I would want to have very coarse on the bottom and not just the fine stuff all the way through. Great video.