Curl Leaf Mountain Mahogany Advice?

[bonsaichile]

Hey guys! I just found this curl leaf mountain mahogany at a nursery. It has been grown for bonsai, which explains the movement in the trunk. I know the nebari needs work. Anyone knows anything about these trees? Backbudding? Response to heavy prunning? Etc? I can’t find much info on them. I love the trunk and I was thinking about rebuilding the canopy, but wanted to see if anyone has experience with them before proceeding. Thanks!

 

[Lazylightningny]

Nice trunk. I don't know anything about them, but they're in the family Rosacea, so you should have no trouble with it. Just treat it like any other Rosacea and you should be golden! - crataegus, cotoneaster, firethorns, prunus, quinces, malus, etc. We'll be interested to see whether it ramifies well and leaves reduce. Keep us posted!

 

[bonsaichile]

Nice trunk. I don't know anything about them, but they're in the family Rosacea, so you should have no trouble with it. Just treat it like any other Rosacea and you should be golden! - crataegus, cotoneaster, firethorns, prunus, quinces, malus, etc. We'll be interested to see whether it ramifies well and leaves reduce. Keep us posted!

THanks for the advice! I love the trunk too. Nice movement, nice bark, 2 inches across, tree has small leaves naturally... best part, it was only $40!

 

[AlainK]

Great find, a lot of potential if it can be trained as a bonsai.

I noticed that apparently, there were branches that were cut low down the trunk. Whether it was a choice or because they died, the cuts on't seem to heal rapidly...

 

[chansen]

Can't speak to how nursery stock will respond, but all attempts I've heard of to collect them ended in failure. Even those where all roots were retained (collected from rock pocket). So I'd suggest taking it slow the the roots. Otherwise it should be a fun project.

 

[bonsaichile]

Thank you for the advice. I will be careful when I repot it next spring, maybe a HRB and no more. I will also try and thread graft a branch so it comes outside of the big bend in the trunk. All in all, it is about 2 inches wide right above the nebari, so I will reduce it. I believe the tree’s future is in the second pic. What do you guys think?

 

[bonsaichile]

So today I decided to repot thos guy. It had been in the nursery soil I got it for a year and a half. So I took it out, saw off about half the rootball/muck. Saw many white tips. I then hbr the remaing rootball and put it in a training pot with bonsai soil. Let's hope it goes well! Have not found much infor about how well these guys respond to bonsai techiques.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

those are thread grafts you have done there?

I looked the species up Cercocarpus ledifolius it is a shrub in Rosaceae, which in some ways resembles another Rosaceae shrub, Potentilla. Wikipedia of course is not much help with bonsai applications, so I got nothing. Though Wikipedia did mention Cercocarpus frequently host a nitrogen fixing bacteria.

If they come down with any pests or fungal diseases, I would suggest that any pesticide or fungicide that is labelled safe for roses would be safe to use on this tree.

I think it is an interesting tree with nice small leaves and interesting bark. Nice

 

[chansen]

From when I've seen them in the mountains, the twigs always seemed brittle, so you'll probably want to wire carefully, and when the new growth is still green and not lignified yet. Just a guess though. I'm stoked to see how it does with the root work. The species has tons of potential.

 

[bonsaichile]

those are thread grafts you have done there?

I looked the species up Cercocarpus ledifolius it is a shrub in Rosaceae, which in some ways resembles another Rosaceae shrub, Potentilla. Wikipedia of course is not much help with bonsai applications, so I got nothing. Though Wikipedia did mention Cercocarpus frequently host a nitrogen fixing bacteria.

If they come down with any pests or fungal diseases, I would suggest that any pesticide or fungicide that is labelled safe for roses would be safe to use on this tree.

I think it is an interesting tree with nice small leaves and interesting bark. Nice

Thank you, Leo. informative as always!
Yes, those are thread grafts I did a year ago. They are alive but have not taken, so I will see how they develop this year.
They do fix N. Last year I use my usual 10-10-10, and I got a lot of growth, but coarse and with larger leaves. I am trying a 0-10-10 fertilizer this time around. Will report on results.
I bought it because I liked the trunk line and the bark. It is native in this area, and it is a perennial, so in winter I always have a tree in full leave to look at!

 

[bonsaichile]

From when I've seen them in the mountains, the twigs always seemed brittle, so you'll probably want to wire carefully, and when the new growth is still green and not lignified yet. Just a guess though. I'm stoked to see how it does with the root work. The species has tons of potential.

Actually, they are not brittle. Not flexible either. the wood is dense (does noy float) and very hard. I almost lost a drill bit trying to do a thread graft! But I had no problem bending the branches and threading then through the holes I drilled on the trunk

 

[bonsaichile]

So I felt this guy needed a wider canopy. So today I used some guy wires to lower a couple of the main branches. The rest would be clip and grow, which helped me ramify the canopy last year. There is very little info about this treea as bonsai, so I am learning as I go!

 

[bonsaichile]

So this guy pouted a bit after the root pruning, but it finally decided to start growing, and it is doing it strong. The thread grafts dont appear to be taking though. Any advice?

 

[asdsuu]

So this guy pouted a bit after the root pruning, but it finally decided to start growing, and it is doing it strong. The thread grafts dont appear to be taking though. Any advice?
View attachment 307122

This is looking really great, I've done a bit a research on these but don't have any advice sadly. Would love to see an update and if the thread grafts have taken.

 

[doctorater]

How did this tree do over the summer and fall this year? I've recently acquired a couple of small Mountain Mahogany and like you I can't find much information on the species as bonsai or in pot culture.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

They are nitrogen fixers... don't ever use nitrogen fertilizer or you will kill them.

They have evolved to do well in nutrient deficient soil. Make sure you use non-organic soil and treat the roots gently.

 

[Colorado]

They are nitrogen fixers... don't ever use nitrogen fertilizer or you will kill them.

Good to know! I have one of these that has just been growing out in a back corner of the garden for a couple years now. I have fertilized with Biogold and fish/seaweed and it seems happy as could be, but will be much more cautious in the future.

 

[ShadyStump]

Have one in a pot now; an air laying over the summer. Some hardwood cuttings are taking up space in my fridge.
They seem to root easily as cuttings and layers, and back bud decently as far as I can tell so far.

It's the second or third hardest wood native to North America, or something like that. The Comanche used to use it as their preferred wood for bows. Wiring will be next to impossible once new growth hardens off.
A nice orange color to the wood. I have a stick I'm planning on carving into buttons for a Xmas present for my older sister who sews.

Flowers are similar to the alder leaf mountain mahogany- cercocarpus montana- with long furry, feathery like stamens and no real petals. A unique spectacle.

They are virtually evergreen, holding their leaves through winter, can handle very hard freezes and keep their foliage (a week in the single digits and sub zero F last February), but I don't believe they require dormancy to survive.

As OP states, there's next to no recorded horticulture readily available, though mine seems to respond much faster than conifers to work. I do keep it as much in the sun as practicable for winter like conifers.
Fingers crossed for spring.

 

[rowan of appalachia]

I work with this species and some of its relatives at a botanic garden. You can prune them back very hard and they will bud like crazy, as you’ve probably noticed by now. I’m not sure what proportion of the foliage you can remove but at any branch you take off it will bud out at the wound. They’re very tough. Let us know if it flowers, they’re rather inconspicuous but the seeds are long and feathery and persist on the plant for months unless some like squirrels (A favorite food for the California ground squirrels) or rain knock them off.