Cuttings possible with - Shishigashira, Red Dragon, Golden Full Moon

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Hi everyone... it's my 2nd post here (I am a super n00b to horticulture and bonsai).

I've read and have been told that Shishigashira, Red Dragon & Golden Full Moon are very difficult (if not, not possible) to grow from cuttings.
Anyone here successful with growing the above from cuttings?
If not from cuttings, what about air-layer? I know shishigashira is possible with air-layer... but unsure of Golden Full Moon air-layer (also, Red Dragon... but I am more interested in GFM).


I am currently attempting the following cuttings (started 1-3 weeks ago):
- Nanking cherry
- Hino-crimson, Kurume azalea
- Katsura maple
- Red Dragon maple
- Kiyo Hime maple
- Shishigashira maple

And, I'm thinking about starting these this weekend...
- Golden Full Moon. Though, I may skip/pass it, since it might be impossible.
- Pink Ume and White Ume. Idk the exact variety/cultivar. Only single-petal I believe. They are (grafted) garden trees/whips I purchased from Trees of Antiquity. But, they seem very vigorous this spring... pink ume grew 1-2' shoots, and the white ume grew huge 2-4'+ shoots.
 

Bonsai Nut

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Welcome to the site!

I have no experience with Japanese maple cuttings since it is very difficult for me to just keep them alive in SoCal. However azaleas grow like weeds here and I can definitely say that azaleas grow quite easily from cuttings (not exactly an answer to your question, but I did see you are trying some azalea cuttings as well).
 
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Thanks nut for the azalea info!
Azaleas seem difficult too for SoCal (at least for me, or, the small-leaf cultivar, idk).
I bought 9 starter Kurumes last year from eBay (early summer 2018)... only 3 survived this spring. I hear once they get sick, it's all downhill from there and very hard for them to recover. Perhaps it was the lengthy mail delivery (they were from the northeast US), or, I kept them in full sun, west of house, last year. The 3 that survived seem to be doing well now though.

As for the cuttings...it's been 3 weeks and the azaleas are still very green and there seems to be new leaves growing already (I cut all my cuttings' leaves in half ...so it's easy to tell which are the new leaves).

The other cuttings... A few have leaves that are starting to dry out... but they all still have green (or red) stems and/or leaves. The Kiyo Hime cuttings seem to have new (very tiny) buds already forming on the leaf-stem-bases after only 6 days. I think I see 1 or 2 Katsura cuttings with tiny buds too at the bases. The others, no buds, but still green/red stems.
 
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A few have leaves that are starting to dry out... but they all still have green (or red) stems and/or leaves
kiyo hime and katsura grow easily from cuttings. in general, expect losses anyways. this is no fault of your own. even the best only score an 75-80% success rate. I was under 50% with katsura, kiyo hime, and kashima on my first try.

i know a very successful nurseryman who has been trying to propagate shishigashira by cutting for 30 years without success, but he air layers them no problem. he otherwise has tremendous success with cuttings from a number of other maples

don't waste your time with red dragon, it can't be done by cutting or air layer.

nanking cherry and ume are easy. i just succeeded with ume recently. 10/10 cuttings (this was very surprising, i was expecting losses. beginner's luck no doubt) you'll have success for sure!

are you misting manually?
 
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kiyo hime and katsura grow easily from cuttings. in general, expect losses anyways. this is no fault of your own. even the best only score an 75-80% success rate. I was under 50% with katsura, kiyo hime, and kashima on my first try.

i know a very successful nurseryman who has been trying to propagate shishigashira by cutting for 30 years without success, but he air layers them no problem. he otherwise has tremendous success with cuttings from a number of other maples

don't waste your time with red dragon, it can't be done by cutting or air layer.

nanking cherry and ume are easy. i just succeeded with ume recently. 10/10 cuttings (this was very surprising, i was expecting losses. beginner's luck no doubt) you'll have success for sure!

are you misting manually?
Thanks for reply.

Ah, okay, so expect <50%.
I am very new to cuttings/air-layers. My 1st experience is San Jose cuttings, started last fall, only individually-potted 2 months ago. Got 11 out of 20... so around a 50% success too. My first air-layer was 2 old garden sea-green juniper bushes, started last fall too, maybe 20-30 years old, but 2/2 success. Too bad they are ugly, lanky, straight as an arrow, lol.

I see, so they're difficult/impossible... at least I won't have any high expectations for my shishigashira and red-dragon cuttings, hahaha.
What about Golden Full Moon? Should I even attempt cuttings or waste of time? Or, maybe wait till they get bigger for an air-layer? (mine is only a small 1-2yr sapling).

Great to hear about the nanking and ume.
My nanking cuttings are currently very very green, except for 1-2 that are starting to leaf-curl and dry out (stems still fine though) after 3 weeks. Can't see any buds tho.
Ume... great to hear! I'll start some this weekend! This is my fave anyways... blooms, gnarly trunk, black bark (at least when mature) and blooms! Awesome tree.

Yes, with a spray bottle, whenever I remember, maybe a light mist every 2-3 hours (I work from home). They are hidden in a concave-corner around my house, next to AC exhaust fan/unit, and get full-shade all day long, no direct sun at all, except a slight 30-60min of weak sun-down-rays (which I also blocked off with a thick clear'ish plastic bag to diffuse the direct light).
 

Bonsai Nut

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Azaleas seem difficult too for SoCal (at least for me, or, the small-leaf cultivar, idk).
They like acidic, soft water. We have alkaline, hard water.

If you use a soil acidifier, you will improve your results dramatically. I have heard (second hand) that if you get a water softener, you will improve your results with Japanese maple and Satsuki azaleas, but I have yet to pull the trigger on a water softener purchase.
 
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Thanks for the tip. About how much soil-acidifier sprinkling per pot, and how many months intervals? I use 3, 7, 15 gal nursery pots for all my plants. 1-2tbs per pot enough?
 

j evans

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For soil acidifier how about Miracle? Would that work?
 

Hack Yeah!

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I have no idea on the golden full moon cuttings, I stuck just a few autumn moon 4ish weeks ago, they're not dead yet.
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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The Vertrees book of Japanese maples has an appendix listing which cultivars of Japanese maples will root easily and which do not. The book is over 25 years old, so the more modern cultivars are not listed. Many public libraries have it, worth check out, photocopying the pages of appendices, also the grafting compatibility chart. It is a useful book.

Given the above, some do, some don't, only way to be certain is give it a try, or go look it up.

Dirr Manual of Woody Plant Propagation is another older book worth looking for.
 

Hack Yeah!

Shohin
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The Vertrees book of Japanese maples has an appendix listing which cultivars of Japanese maples will root easily and which do not. The book is over 25 years old, so the more modern cultivars are not listed. Many public libraries have it, worth check out, photocopying the pages of appendices, also the grafting compatibility chart. It is a useful book.

Given the above, some do, some don't, only way to be certain is give it a try, or go look it up.

Dirr Manual of Woody Plant Propagation is another older book worth looking for.
I have the fourth edition of Vertrees and it no longer has that appendix, copyright 2009. Maybe too many new cultivars to cover that information?
 
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I have no idea on the golden full moon cuttings, I stuck just a few autumn moon 4ish weeks ago, they're not dead yet.
Haha, Some of mine are 3 weeks in now, all green/red/alive stems too, and around 4-5 with leaf curl/drying (out of 30+ cuttings - I did 6-8 of each plant). The funny thing is, Red Dragon is the most vibrant with zero leaf dry/curl at all at 3 weeks in (perhaps it has a strong vascular/stem-energy). Though, it most likely won't root/grow, assuming by what many have told me.
 

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