Dawn Redwood cones are lovely

Brad in GR

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SO excited to report, for any lovers of metasequoia, that my 10 year old (15’ high) and 15 year old (25’ high) landscape dawn redwood have produced cones/seeds for the first time since I planted them. These cones are the my new favorite - so delicate and interesting. Maybe Douglas fir still wins out for me aesthetically but man. Neat! EDIT: this is especially satisfying for me since my partner and I are looking at a new house (bonsai garden design is most certainly part of the search process haha) and will likely move next year.

The larger tree in the ground now for ten years, and smaller for 4. This is a first! I’ve read that they enjoy warm summers, which we certainly had in 2019 here in west Michigan.

At any rate, I’m over the moon and was so elated to see them growing this spring. They have matured and I spent some time on the ladder removing them today. I think I have about 50 seeds from each tree (intense winds have removed the rest recently, will be putz-ing around the yard the next few days). One is a deeper green foliage and the other is a lighter green almost yellow.

Plan will be to soak them and sow outdoors protected for natural stratification. Wahoo! Anyone else with experience seeing these cones?

C30E5D73-29EF-4AD3-910D-46514CD88587.jpeg
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CWTurner

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I like these cones as well. Have collected them from a large park tree and planted a couple dozen or so. I got a few seedlings, and one tree that lived a year or two until I neglected it to death.
I think I just left them on a shelf and didn't cold stratify them. Planted in the Spring.
Good luck!
CW
 

PA_Penjing

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Like WGW said up there, I have noticed that metasequoia has a painfully low germination rate. I grew mine from seed as well, but only 6 years ago and already 15' after multiple chops, but still no cones. Good luck, they are a super fun species, I find them far less frustrating than BC in our climate
 

LittleDingus

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Glad you got cones!!! I love these trees :D

In my experience, the "low viability" seems to be a function of technique. Assuming they're viable...I find I have better germination rates if I soak the seed for 24-48 hours first then sow on the surface of something that retains a lot of moisture...like coconut coir of ground up sphagnum. I generally buy my seed from Sheffield's so there is some measure of expected viability before hand: Sheffield's puts that information on the packaging. If the seed if fresh (<2 years from harvest) I usually get over 60% germination rate from their seed. The last package I received from them claimed 77% viability. Of those that germinate, I generally lose ~30% to early death: damp off, failure to shed the seed coat, my sub-standard level of care, etc...

I've seen many places that claim they do not need light to germinate, but they germinate more reliably for me if the seeds do get some light: surface sow. I do know that if I plant them too deep they aren't strong enough to lift their heads above the surface and I get very low to zero seedlings. They carry the seed coat until the leaves expand enough to shed it off. That can be a week or more depending on conditions. Many of mine seem to die just after germination because they can't break that seed coat from the soil and lift it up or they rot right where they emerge from the seed coat.

Here's a pick of a few of my seedlings planted a few weeks ago.

20201119_114348.jpg

You can see how the two in the background still haven't fully shed their seed coats. You can also see the dead tissue on the one in front where it rotted before it could shed it's seed coat. That one in front is dead it just doesn't know it yet. There's no meristem left for it to grow leaves from :(

This lot was surface sown on NAPA 8822 with a light dusting of big box store Miracle Grow over the top. The light dusting helps keep moisture in contact with the seed coat. The pot was covered with a dome to help keep humidity in. I watered every morning with a spray bottle on fine mist to help keep the seed moist. Germination too just under a week. This is the first time I'm trying NAPA as a seedling soil for these guys as an experiment. I usually use coconut coir.

Enjoy your tree! I love the old boys with their deep armpits under every branch :D I really wish that were possible at bonsai scale!
 

Brad in GR

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Thanks @LittleDingus - fantastic overview.

I will try this approach out for half of the seeds; going to try outdoor natural sowing this week for the remainder (with critter protection of course) as we head into winter. So no cold stratification, huh? Fair enough. Do you keep them indoors for winter then? I will likely wait to start any indoors until March or so. Fridge for those seeds for now.

Thanks for sharing your experience, as @PA_Penjing notes, there is little to no information out there on these, specifically from seed. I've got about 20 in varying sizes in my care for future bonsai and am hoping to get a least a few per landscape tree out of this process just for fun.

I've been a heavy user of Sheffields myself for about the last 2 years :) I'm surprising myself with how much supplies are needed and space as well... couple extra orders from Stuewe and Son's for anderson-type flats :)
 

LittleDingus

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wow @LittleDingus that might be the most comprehensive guide to sprouting DR I've every come across online. In fact, I'm pretty sure it is. Thanks for adding to the archive, hopefully google pulls this thread up near the top of the search reults

Do keep in mind that this is my experience and your mileage may vary ;)

I used to grow these guys from seed a decade or more ago...but then got away from them for a bit. I started up again and now for the past 3-4 years I've been starting small groups from seed again. I generally sow seed in the fall now. I have more time and space then and the new growth makes me happy :)
 

LittleDingus

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Thanks @LittleDingus - fantastic overview.

I will try this approach out for half of the seeds; going to try outdoor natural sowing this week for the remainder (with critter protection of course) as we head into winter. So no cold stratification, huh? Fair enough. Do you keep them indoors for winter then? I will likely wait to start any indoors until March or so. Fridge for those seeds for now.

Thanks for sharing your experience, as @PA_Penjing notes, there is little to no information out there on these, specifically from seed. I've got about 20 in varying sizes in my care for future bonsai and am hoping to get a least a few per landscape tree out of this process just for fun.

I've been a heavy user of Sheffields myself for about the last 2 years :) I'm surprising myself with how much supplies are needed and space as well... couple extra orders from Stuewe and Son's for anderson-type flats :)

If they are cold stratified, it is done by Sheffield's! Here is a picture of the package label with it's instructions:

20201119_154739.jpg

That information is on their site too:


I store them long term in my wine refrigerator which is ~40F degrees. I don't think that counts as "cold stratification" plus I've grown them straight out of the package as well.

I do keep the seedlings indoors for the winter. I have (possibly had :(...I was away for too long and it dried up...I'm not sure it's going to wake up in the spring) a small dawn redwood forest that I keep inside most of the year. I put it outside late fall to go dormant then set it on a shelf in my garage for the winter. Otherwise, after the first winter, all the ones I have are outdoor trees. I just have more time for paying attention to seedlings in the fall/over winter and having something growing makes me smile. Seedlings indoors are not nearly as challenging as larger trees indoors. And this house has a lot of light which makes it easier.

I'd love to see pictures of some of yours! Do you have any threads on them? I've got a thread on a set of redwoods I'm growing together as a project here


I've also got this thread on the group planting that above picture is from here


and I have a new project I just started to try and grow a mixed forest of dawn, coast and sequoia all from seed. I'm OK with the long timeline from seed...I figure I'm 12-15 years out from retirement...until then, I'll just let them grow :D
 

Brad in GR

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The only 'more advanced' versions of Dawn I have are a forest (which is still just 4-5 year old trees in a planting from Brussels that I've had for 2 years) and my big Dawn that I purchased in 2018 from the Michigan Bonsai State show. The big one is making some progress.

Here's a thread of the large Dawn:

And the video linked in there is also on a repot I did this spring:

My forest appears in a couple of my videos, but is nothing special yet. I have 7-8 cuttings that I have ready to join with the 5 from Brussells as soon as next spring into a tray that can start forming the future forest I'm envisioning.

Also a smaller one that I air layered (not sure if it'll make it thru winter, separated with few roots late summer)...

I like your projects!! On the coast redwood front, I have some that I take inside for winter, and it has been working. The oldest has been through 3 winters under grow lights. They take until June to adjust back to sun/outside, then grow steadily thru October, after which I put them back inside. Hope they can live long term, the largest/oldest one I have is nearly 1.5 inches at the base. Planning for one stand-alone for the largest, and then I have 6-7 cuttings to pair with a medium sized standalone tree into an eventual coastal redwood forest. We shall see.

Will try to follow up w/ pictures of the coastals... I have a video from this year of all my redwoods that I'm debating editing up... it would be a "redwoods only" episode on coastal and dawn haha!
 

LittleDingus

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The only 'more advanced' versions of Dawn I have are a forest (which is still just 4-5 year old trees in a planting from Brussels that I've had for 2 years) and my big Dawn that I purchased in 2018 from the Michigan Bonsai State show. The big one is making some progress.

Here's a thread of the large Dawn:

And the video linked in there is also on a repot I did this spring:

My forest appears in a couple of my videos, but is nothing special yet. I have 7-8 cuttings that I have ready to join with the 5 from Brussells as soon as next spring into a tray that can start forming the future forest I'm envisioning.

Also a smaller one that I air layered (not sure if it'll make it thru winter, separated with few roots late summer)...

I like your projects!! On the coast redwood front, I have some that I take inside for winter, and it has been working. The oldest has been through 3 winters under grow lights. They take until June to adjust back to sun/outside, then grow steadily thru October, after which I put them back inside. Hope they can live long term, the largest/oldest one I have is nearly 1.5 inches at the base. Planning for one stand-alone for the largest, and then I have 6-7 cuttings to pair with a medium sized standalone tree into an eventual coastal redwood forest. We shall see.

Will try to follow up w/ pictures of the coastals... I have a video from this year of all my redwoods that I'm debating editing up... it would be a "redwoods only" episode on coastal and dawn haha!

I remember that thread! Sorry, didn't recognize you...I need to pay more attention to user names! I recognize the trees on here long before I recognize the people :(

I had a couple larger ones (3"-4" trunks) in the ground at the last house...I wasn't able to get them out of the ground when we moved :( I've only recently started growing them again. My oldest one now is 3 years and still in a grow bag because we're planning another more in a couple years and not making that mistake again!

I put my coastals in the garage under light, but then we got a warm spell again. They're back outside on the driveway until at least Sunday now. We seem to be in a pattern where we get a few days of freezing and I bring them in but then we get a week of 70F+ days and 50F+ nights and I put them back out. Our planned move is back to the Chicago area...I'll have to have a better plan after that. It's more reliably cold there.
 
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