dawn redwood--where to go?

butlern

Shohin
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I have had this redwood for just over a year.

First picture is what I got from Brussel's (June 2015).

july 2015.jpg

Second picture is where it stands today. I thinned/pruned to expose the truck line and wired some lower branches outward/downward. Base is about 1.5 inches. Have not repotted yet.

june 2016.JPG
I'm just not sure how to best impart the illusion of age and maturity with this one. Honestly, that's true of all 11 of my trees (shrubs), since I've only been messing around with potted trees (shrubs) for a year.

I suppose I'm just fishing for some perspective from more experienced members here.

Would you suggest that I just let it continue to grow unchecked for another couple years, should it go into the ground and let it become a 5-6 inch diameter base, or should I continue to prune the upper branches to keep them from thickening too much (more than the lower branches) and let the lower branches spread unchecked? Wire down all branches to impart the illusion of weight and age?

Any thoughts are appreciated.

Thanks,

Noah
 

Wilson

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These usually grow like crazy, so it depends on how big you want the base. If you are after a heavy old looking tree, put it in the ground and it will put on the girth! Dawns can normally handle a good chop, so you can let it get big and cut it back. Or just enjoy trying to meticulously grow and style the tree in the pot, both can be fun. Best of luck, I love these trees!
 

Zach Smith

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I have had this redwood for just over a year.

First picture is what I got from Brussel's (June 2015).

Second picture is where it stands today. I thinned/pruned to expose the truck line and wired some lower branches outward/downward. Base is about 1.5 inches. Have not repotted yet.

I'm just not sure how to best impart the illusion of age and maturity with this one. Honestly, that's true of all 11 of my trees (shrubs), since I've only been messing around with potted trees (shrubs) for a year.

I suppose I'm just fishing for some perspective from more experienced members here.

Would you suggest that I just let it continue to grow unchecked for another couple years, should it go into the ground and let it become a 5-6 inch diameter base, or should I continue to prune the upper branches to keep them from thickening too much (more than the lower branches) and let the lower branches spread unchecked? Wire down all branches to impart the illusion of weight and age?

Any thoughts are appreciated.

Thanks,

Noah
Noah, you have a couple of options. If you plant this tree out in the ground, be prepared to wait 10+ years to get to a 5-6" trunk base. At that point the tree may not have the tapering trunk you'd want, so there would be another 5-7 years of creating taper. Second option is to make what you have look older. To start, remove the branches in the lower third to half of the tree. Wire and position the branches above and pull them downward. Then finally, bring the silhouette inward as this will make the tree look taller and older immediately. I know this is fairly simplistic advice, but if you do a search for bald cypress bonsai you'll see examples of how to position the branches. The reason for bringing in the silhouette is to make the thin trunk look not so thin. It works.

Good luck with your tree!

Zach
 

butlern

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Thanks Wilson and Zach.

Zach, I like that plan. I'll probably be relocating in the next 2-3 years, so the ground now seems a less viable option.

I will focus on the silhouette.

Noah
 

butlern

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But one thing... if left in the pot, would it not help to leave the lower branches growing unchecked and for eventual sacrifice in 2-3 years to help thicken the lower trunk?

Sorry I was not more specific about my reasoning for leaving the lower branches.

On the other hand, if the gains will be marginal, at best, then perhaps I can start the new styling (removing the lower 1/2 to 1/3) in the spring.

Noah
 

Vance Wood

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Take it out of the pot and put it in a colander. This will allow the tree to think, not as much as in the ground but still it will thicken.
 

sorce

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I was thinking colander too...

And I like your plan of leaving a low branch or 2 to keep it girthing.
A couple forget me's....while you enjoy the top!

Sorce
 

Dav4

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In MA, a 1" dawn redwood seedling could have a 5-6" trunk in as little as 3 years. They grow incredibly fast as young trees in the Northeast. In fact, a 10 year old tree could easily be 50' tall. They don't grow nearly as fast down hear in the Southeast, so I'm not sure how quickly it will fatten up for you in OK. If you want trunk girt, planting in the ground will get you the desired results the fastest, but I suspect it will take longer then 3 years for you because of your location. Still, I'd plant it out, watering and feeding it heavily while it's there. Digging it up in 2-3 years isn't the worst thing because you can do some meaningful root work at that point, then re-plant at your new location or perhaps permanently pot up.
 

Zach Smith

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But one thing... if left in the pot, would it not help to leave the lower branches growing unchecked and for eventual sacrifice in 2-3 years to help thicken the lower trunk?

Sorry I was not more specific about my reasoning for leaving the lower branches.

On the other hand, if the gains will be marginal, at best, then perhaps I can start the new styling (removing the lower 1/2 to 1/3) in the spring.

Noah
Certainly the lower branches, left un-pruned, will help thicken the trunk as they grow. How much extra girth you'll get is hard to say. It won't be measured in inches, though, in the course of 2-3 years.
 

Mash

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I would remove the bottom 1/3 now no mater what you do. I would remove the new branches that grow there every time the pop up. I can see people scratching there heads. The logic with this is so the scaring heals nicely. It is my opinion with the way Dawn Redwoods grow there isn't a big advantage to keeping the lower branches. Keeping them will take longer to heal scares than gains in girth and scaring will obscure the taper. IMG_20160620_201926.jpg This is a 5 year old tree grown in pots. Started much like yours. The scares are 1 and 2 year old cuts of thicker branches. Its been aloud to grow in this pot 2 years. Its over 6 feet tall 2 inch base. It is heavily root pruned each year. I feel the scares obscure the taper of what will be the tree.IMG_20160620_201047.jpgYou can see the taper is not great. To get the taper I want with this tree is going to take some chops is my current thinking. Its all about 2 inches for the first foot and half. I also feel all the scares is not going to look natural.

Now take these 2 year old clippings from the first tree. I have removed all the lower branches here last weekend for this reason. I have no large branches on what will be my trunk. You can see just by the trees natural growth it is building taper. The two 2 year old trees are 7 feet tall. In a couple years I will let the new growth on the lower trunk grow into the branches I want.
IMG_20160620_201955.jpg IMG_20160620_201948.jpg IMG_20160620_201252.jpg
The clippings have been heavily root trimed at 1 year when moved to the larger pots. The clippings will probably beat the original tree in becoming a nice looking semi finished tree.

Keep in mind these are just my opinions on how Dawn's grow. And as you can see I am working the tree in multiple ways. They grow fast and are super easy to root clipings so start some experiments.
 

sorce

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heavily root trimed

I'd leave em for some flare.

Mash....I don't want to be a dick.....
But....

You may want to change your opinions over to something like Zachs.....

Except for styling...
I'd always defer to experience over opinion. This shit just takes way too long!

Sorce
 

butlern

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Thanks for all the feedback.

Some things to consider for sure, but minimally I think I'll get it into a colander in the spring. Don't want to plant it in the ground just yet, because if I pull up stakes in the summer/fall/winter of 2017 (i.e. relocate and choose to take the tree with me), that would not be good for the health of tree, obviously.

These colanders you speak of, Vance, are those types pictured in your avatar? This tree is already in a relatively big pot (18 x 12-ish). Might have to construct a larger/custom one patterning it after those that appear your picture.

Noah
 

Mash

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Its all good I am in the no panties club and take criticism well. Nothing slow about this tree. The battle is slowing them down. Like I said it was my opinion related to my experiments with this tree only. As you can see on the pine in the background I leave the lower branches and the effect is noticeable. I started with the belief keeping the lower branches was a benefit and have moved away from it. As fast as the dawn grows it seems to benefit more from allowing to to grow tall. The branches will grow just as fast when you want to grow them out. In one growing season they will out pace the trunk. I have yet to see the depth of materiel for this tree like you find for pines and maples. You treat those two trees some what differently. Would love to here Vance's, Zach's or anyone else thoughts on what I have posted. Take this picture of mature tree for example. I believe because of the way it grows naturally you get more benefits from how fast it roots grown and how tall it grows. Yes lots of web picture show low branches on old Dawns but the flair is developing to hold the tree up. Best results would be planting in the ground obviously.

Review this blog as well.
http://littlebigtrees.blogspot.com/2009/03/notes-and-thoughts-on-raising-dawn.html
Its one of the more detailed write ups I have seen on this tree and its only a couple pages. To quote "The biggest thing with trimming metasequoias is that the branches grow VERY fast and bud-back is constant along the trunk. Therefore, whether you like it or not, you have to constantly and aggressively cut off your largest branches lest they quickly become out of proportion with the tree."

For me I want a tree with a less scared trunk for the reasons above. The first tree I left all branches and didn't like the result. I know the tree will send new branches out where I remove branches. So with the trees I am growing from scratch myself I want to control the scaring. The battle will be growing branches in the same location over and over. The goal will be to limit the scaring effect and hide it each time I have to remove and grow a new branch.

These are just my experiments and felt like sharing since there is a lack of write ups on this tree. There is no one right way in my opinion, just many ways to get the tree one wants in the end. Some may be slower some may be faster but part of the enjoyment is the process.



dawn-redwood.jpg
 

LanceMac10

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If you want to eliminate the scaring, you'll need to make a little deeper cut into the trunk. It looks all knobby, like you didn't work the cut area enough to ensure a smooth callous.
 

Mash

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Missed the root thing. Roots grow super fast for these trees. You get large spiral roots in pots that need dealt with. You get large roots even in a air pot or colander. So yes I do impact there growth with aggressive root work to fight there nature. Year one I start in a small air pot or colander. The tree will completely fill a pot with tuns of small roots and some large center roots. So I have root ball maybe 7 inches across 8 or 9 inches in depth. I literally take a machete and chop of the bottom half the the root ball. I then remove any large roots in the bottom that are exposed. I then move to my larger pots. based on my experiments I lose maybe 1/8 an inch trunk growth from this verse a strait transplant. Worth it in my mind since the tree is adding an inch of trunk at least by year 2. Saves me more root work later. Yes cutting the roots slows the tree down but its a trade off. Yes you can get faster growth in the ground or by not cutting roots.
 

Mash

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I will experiment but I take a fairly aggressive cuts with a concave branch cutter. Think some of it is swelling from branch growth.
 

butlern

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Mash, appreciate the data on your personal experiments. Thanks for the perspective.

NB
 

butlern

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I can attest to the scaring/swelling, even with the application of aggressive concave cutting to remove unwanted branches along the trunk.cuts.JPG
 
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