Dawn Redwoods

[KJbonsai]

I put this under my post in the new section and figured it would be best suited here.
Can I grow thicker trunks and more branches lower if I trim back some of the top?

 

[discusmike]

They are outdoor trees and should be dormant, outside now, or they will get weak and eventually die, there is tons of info on the web about basic pre bonsai care.Good luck.

 

[jkd2572]

Don't put them outside now. They have already leafed out this year. I would wait until there is no chance of a freeze and then put them outside. Next winter let them over winter outdoors and let them go dormant. If you want the trunks to thicken let the top grow until you are happy with the trunk thickness. Then chop them back to the desired height. Cute little guys. They do need to be outdoors or over a few seasons they will die.

 

[bonsai barry]

I have a dawn redwood that looked like your trees. I put in the ground and just trimmed a few upper branches that were growing out of proportion to the ones below them. Four years later it has a trunk about three inches in diameter. Last year, I pulled it out of the ground and cleaned up its roots and then put it back in the ground. I 'll pot it next year.

I'll post a photo tomorrow if I get home before it gets dark.

 

[KJbonsai]

discusmike,
I wanted to put them outside I was just afraid with the impending storm we had in MD that they would die.

jkd2572,
What do you mean by over winter? and I have a garage I could clean up some space for trees to go dormant except there's not much light and would be afraid of killing the tree if it sprouts if the garage gets to warm and it thinks its spring. my garage is kinda insulated. but how can I promote branching lower or is where the leaves are coming out going to become branches?

bonsai barry,
I wish I could plant them in the ground. But unfortunately we rent our house. And we are on a year to year lease so I cant dig up the ground. That would be cool to see some pictures. would a 5 gallon pot work? or maybe a huge bin?

 

[jkd2572]

If the trees are dormant they need no light. They need to have dormant period or they will exhaust their energy and die. The garage is a good place to do this. Put them in there next fall after you have had a light freeze or the leaves have shriveled up or dropped off of the tree. If they leaf out in the spring while in your garage you will need to play the game a lot of us play, which is move them in and out until there is no chance of a frost or freeze. Where the leaves are coming out are going to be branches.

 

[Dav4]

Dawn redwoods are extremely cold hardy and would do just fine outside in Maryland if allowed to go dormant naturally. If you really want these to thicken up, I'd plant them in the ground.

 

[Vance Wood]

Think about it; if these trees were in nature do you think they would be in a garage? I would guess that a good 25% of the bonsai failures by beginners is due to babying trees. We water them too much, we give them too much fertilizer, we move them into pots too often or not at all and we try to keep them warm like a per puppy. The Dawn Red Wood, as a species, has been around for millions of years without garages. We need to provide winter protection to a point but they do need the weather and the cold to become strong. Don't move them out now you are kind of stuck. Keeping them inside has stimulated them to grow and now you have to deal with that first mistake by keeping them in till the weather warms enough you can move them out. That could be as late as April or May.

 

[small trees]

I think it was already said more or less, but the trunk only thickens when it has something above it growing. In other words, the trunk diameter will increase while you have a leader growing upwards, but when you chop the trunk the trunk growth will stop until a new leader has grown to roughly the same size as the trunk. Just let the top grow until you are happy with the trunk size, and consider the trunk growth finished once you chop it.

 

[Vance Wood]

I think it was already said more or less, but the trunk only thickens when it has something above it growing. In other words, the trunk diameter will increase while you have a leader growing upwards, but when you chop the trunk the trunk growth will stop until a new leader has grown to roughly the same size as the trunk. Just let the top grow until you are happy with the trunk size, and consider the trunk growth finished once you chop it.

The above is fundamentally correct for the most part. However I have found after years of using my screen-sided containers that the traditional wisdom is not so graven in stone as those who forward this kind of information would have you believe.

 

[Poink88]

The above is fundamentally correct for the most part. However I have found after years of using my screen-sided containers that the traditional wisdom is not so graven in stone as those who forward this kind of information would have you believe.

I agree.

My belief is that the foliage dictates the thickening. Sure, stress does too but it is mostly what is produced and need to be stored/deposited somewhere. With good root system, good supply of nutrients, lots of leaves and sunlight...a tree doesn't have to be tall to have thick trunks.

 

[Paradox]

Think about it; if these trees were in nature do you think they would be in a garage? I would guess that a good 25% of the bonsai failures by beginners is due to babying trees. We water them too much, we give them too much fertilizer, we move them into pots too often or not at all and we try to keep them warm like a per puppy. The Dawn Red Wood, as a species, has been around for millions of years without garages. We need to provide winter protection to a point but they do need the weather and the cold to become strong. Don't move them out now you are kind of stuck. Keeping them inside has stimulated them to grow and now you have to deal with that first mistake by keeping them in till the weather warms enough you can move them out. That could be as late as April or May.

Correct, trees in nature where their roots extend below the freeze/frost zone and covered in a thick layer of leaf litter before winter snow covers them do just fine on their own. As you know, the game changes a bit when we put tees in small pots where the roots can and do freeze.

While its true that beginners have killed many trees by babying them too much, they have also killed trees by not providing enough protection or other things they need to survive. Putting these guys out on an exposed bench all winter will probably kill them just as well as keeping them in the warm house.

 

[Poink88]

Correct, trees in nature where their roots extend below the freeze/frost zone and covered in a thick layer of leaf litter before winter snow covers them do just fine on their own. As you know, the game changes a bit when we put tees in small pots where the roots can and do freeze.

While its true that beginners have killed many trees by babying them too much, they have also killed trees by not providing enough protection or other things they need to survive. Putting these guys out on an exposed bench all winter will probably kill them just as well as keeping them in the warm house.

I agree. Not to mention that human started moving trees out of their natural range.

 

[GrimLore]

If the specimen is healthy and can be kept outdoors in your zone keeping them even in tiny pots outside is quite simple. Buy a Sterlite 33 gallon storage container(inexpensive but tall for wind protection). Drill a 1/2 inch hole in each corner area and 3 down the center of the base(for drainage). Place it DIRECTLY on the ground. Put specimens inside leaving 2 to 3 inches between each pot. Then fill in between(not under) with pure pine mulch(I use pine horse bedding, again pure but cheap). Now toss in enough to cover the pots and soil line 2 to 3 inches.

Now sit back and LET them alone to sleep. Our snow is so deep here we have not seen several containers for weeks. They will be JUST fine! WHY? Because they have wind protection, drainage, AND they are at the same temperature as the ground they are on making them stable.

Grimmy

 

[Jester217300]

If the specimen is healthy and can be kept outdoors in your zone keeping them even in tiny pots outside is quite simple. Buy a Sterlite 33 gallon storage container(inexpensive but tall for wind protection). Drill a 1/2 inch hole in each corner area and 3 down the center of the base(for drainage). Place it DIRECTLY on the ground. Put specimens inside leaving 2 to 3 inches between each pot. Then fill in between(not under) with pure pine mulch(I use pine horse bedding, again pure but cheap). Now toss in enough to cover the pots and soil line 2 to 3 inches.

Now sit back and LET them alone to sleep. Our snow is so deep here we have not seen several containers for weeks. They will be JUST fine! WHY? Because they have wind protection, drainage, AND they are at the same temperature as the ground they are on making them stable.

Grimmy

I've heard of this method before. For completely deciduous trees is this better than an unheated garage or shed?

 

[small trees]

The above is fundamentally correct for the most part. However I have found after years of using my screen-sided containers that the traditional wisdom is not so graven in stone as those who forward this kind of information would have you believe.

Maybe I should amend it to say trunk growth will be quickest when you allow a leader to grow out. Care to elaborate on your screen-sided containers?

 

[discusmike]

Pond plant pots, plastic colanders from the dollar store

 

[Vance Wood]

Maybe I should amend it to say trunk growth will be quickest when you allow a leader to grow out. Care to elaborate on your screen-sided containers?

No; I don't care for the almost automatic arguments. I should have kept my mouth shut, but Let's put it this way. The evidence I have seen from many years of using screen sided containers shows that the default argument that it takes vegetive growth to stimulate trunk development is not totally correct. However; I cannot tell you why other than to speculate that: Increased root growth will also encourage increased growth to the trunk. The old saying that a rising tide floats all boats seems to be correct here.

 

[Vance Wood]

Pond plant pots, plastic colanders from the dollar store

These things work almost as well but not quite. For the money they are hard to beat.

 

[small trees]

No; I don't care for the almost automatic arguments. I should have kept my mouth shut, but Let's put it this way. The evidence I have seen from many years of using screen sided containers shows that the default argument that it takes vegetive growth to stimulate trunk development is not totally correct. However; I cannot tell you why other than to speculate that: Increased root growth will also encourage increased growth to the trunk. The old saying that a rising tide floats all boats seems to be correct here.

I wasn't trying to argue; it's hard to detect sarcasm vs none through text. Anything I ask on here is meant honestly; I'm always open to new schools of thought and to learning new things.


I'll have to read about the colander method though. I thought it was more for air pruning roots.