Debate Poll

My Feelings on the Recent Debates

  • They made me reevaluate my thoughts

    Votes: 6 13.0%
  • They confirmed what I already knew

    Votes: 5 10.9%
  • I learned something from them

    Votes: 11 23.9%
  • It was nice to see other opinions on subjects

    Votes: 12 26.1%
  • Debates are important to understanding a subject

    Votes: 11 23.9%
  • The open exchange of ideas are what forums are for

    Votes: 14 30.4%
  • They presented multiple views, allowing me to make my own intelligent decisions

    Votes: 10 21.7%
  • We should have more of them

    Votes: 6 13.0%
  • They would have been better if all off topic remarks were deleted

    Votes: 7 15.2%
  • They would have been better if everyone stayed on topic

    Votes: 20 43.5%
  • They were educational except for the bickering

    Votes: 19 41.3%
  • The bickering negated all usefulness

    Votes: 14 30.4%
  • Debating issues has no place here

    Votes: 1 2.2%
  • I didn't learn anything from them at all

    Votes: 2 4.3%
  • They were useless

    Votes: 5 10.9%
  • I never read and/or participate in them

    Votes: 1 2.2%
  • We should not allow them on the forum

    Votes: 3 6.5%

  • Total voters
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The question you have to ask yourself, and I am assuming that you have the intelligence to discern the difference, who makes these threads useless; Will or those who seek to tear him down at every opportunity? There is a history there to be sure, but that does not mean Will has nothing to say. Check out AoB and KoB web sites. Will was big time involved in setting up those two sites. Read some of the articles and see what you think. Some of the biggest names in bonsai post there. Have you checked to see where Walter Pall's blog resides? You might want to look at that as well. I appreciate your observations but you seem to focus your ire and blame on Will which is not the case.

On the flip side of that point what if any contribution to the good and welfare of bonsai has any of those who gang slam Will ever made?
Vance, with all due respect, on the strainers thread I did nothing of the kind and it turned into a huge brouhaha that eventually brought about this brouhaha. Will's need to post as if he had to lift the world up to his level, his need to utterly destroy any contrary argument, his playing fast and loose with other people's ideas, instead of asking someone to clarify or giving them the benefit of the doubt...That's the problem. The fact that he plays victim so well is the problem. When was the last time anyone brought up something about Will's character in one of his threads? And yet how many times will we be treated to link after link about "ad hominem" attacks?

Will was involved big time setting up those sites. Absolutely. No one can take away from Will that he is indefatigable when it comes to a project he is focused on. How he manages to type so much so often so many places and still have a full time job is beyond me. And on top of that, he has a daughter to spend time with. I am always amazed at how much he gets done along those lines.

On the other hand, something is driving that need to be in charge, in control. As you may know, I was an editor at KoB for a short time. I wanted to help Paul. I found out after getting access that that whole website is all about Will and what he wants. You folks think he throws his weight around in here, you should get a behind the scenes look at his PM blizzards to boards he's not even a moderator on, his way of "managing" the sites he's involved with. He has gone so far as to complain about my signature to the admin of another forum entirely!

Now please, if you will, define "the good and welfare of bonsai." Do you mean by that, sowing division everywhere he goes?

I do not feel the need to post my bloated resume everywhere at the drop of a hat, just to show what I am doing for the bonsai community. Altruism does not enter the equation, I don't believe it exists. Will does what he does because he thinks he gets something from it, just as every other human being, whether it's good feelings, more cash, or enhanced reputation.

I will just take this opportunity to say that I do what I can to help those I meet advance their trees and learn to love the art more, with better technique and more knowledge. Insofar as the sites Will helped start do that, all the more power to him. But as people and editors bid those sites goodbye, eventually they will dry up. You can only run roughshod over people for so long.
 
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On the other hand, something is driving that need to be in charge, in control. As you may know, I was an editor at KoB for a short time.
Yes, I voted to allow your editor status which lasted one week I think with about as many posts.

I found out after getting access that that whole website is all about Will and what he wants. You folks think he throws his weight around in here, you should get a behind the scenes look at his PM blizzards to boards he's not even a moderator on, his way of "managing" the sites he's involved with. He has gone so far as to complain about my signature to the admin of another forum entirely!
Careful Chris, there are other editors at AoB and KoB who post here and can offer the truth, which is that both KoB and AoB are strictly Democratic, I have no more voting power than any other editor and there are "rejected" threads full of my ideas that were voted down.

When your signature is insulting and harassing, it deserves to be removed, which it has been. The funny truth is that you are quickly running out of places to post your crap. You are under the illusion that "intelligent debate" is name calling, posting pictures, throwing mud, and linking to sexual pictures, It is not. You and a few others pick and pick and pick, you kick the dog repeatedly and then whine and complain when you get bit. The fact is, the cold hard truth is, you have an unhealthy fixation on me Chris, others have said it, you have been called disturbed, paranoid, a cyber stalker, even a lunatic and yet it just doesn't sink in.

Insofar as the sites Will helped start do that, all the more power to him. But as people and editors bid those sites goodbye, eventually they will dry up.
People said that years ago when AoB was founded, they said it about KoB, hell they said it about me and all are still here. Over a million hits each in February of 2008 for these "drying up" forums and they are still growing.

The problem is Chris, after almost four years of you trying to drag my name through the mud, I have accomplished much in spite of you and the 5 or 6 other BT'ers (where it all started), you haven't ever hurt me, and it seems you got yourself muddy in the process.

Take this thread for example, once the Will bashing began, you came rushing in, never mind that you have been basically absent from this forum for over a week....do you think no one notices?




Will
 
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Thanks Hans, I needed the laugh. :)


Obviously there is no substance here, time to move back to the forum and start talking bonsai again.



Will
 

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