Demotion of Inferior Bonsai

one_bonsai

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What do people do with inferior bonsai that get replaced with superior bonsai on your display benches? Do you just end up with lots of bonsai that are still good bonsai, it's just that they're not as good as others.
 

leatherback

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REALLY bad: Give away or plant in a field
Not good enough anymore, but still decent for a beginner: Club auction
Pretty bad, but.. hey, I worked it for 2 years, must be worth it: Endless posting on for-sale sites, never sells though
Actually a good tree: Ebay
 

Potawatomi13

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I find most anything that's not true Yamadori is generally inferior to them. Not their fault. Work to make better of them or move on to new keeper
 

Wires_Guy_wires

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What do people do with inferior bonsai that get replaced with superior bonsai on your display benches? Do you just end up with lots of bonsai that are still good bonsai, it's just that they're not as good as others.
I just love plants. And I keep them on my benches.
 

Forsoothe!

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That's what club auctions are for. That also allows you to see what you should have done when you see it two years later in a club show...
Some of my best trees came from club auctions. Sometimes a tree is lousy because we continue a wrong-headed course just because that's the way we started. It's not always the tree's fault...
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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I compost or burn truly inferior trees. I would never pass a major flawed tree on to a newbie at a club auction.

Medium grade trees that have potential, but no longer interest me, go to the club auction.

Once in a while, I get bored with something that is "pretty okay to pretty good", these I gift to others that are already actively growing bonsai.
 

sorce

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There is a more responsible thing to do with shit trees than sell them to others.

No sense perpetuating the ongoing care of garbage.


Sorce
 

MrWunderful

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Throw them in cheap pots and give to someone as a gift if you know a person has a green thumb. It just might make their day!

Not as a bonsai to train, just something to throw on the patio, etc.
 

River's Edge

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What do people do with inferior bonsai that get replaced with superior bonsai on your display benches? Do you just end up with lots of bonsai that are still good bonsai, it's just that they're not as good as others.
Cull before much time or effort has been expended. Simple, focus on nebari and trunk, if not above average, cull or determine how to fix first!
I like Michael Hagedorns approach. Rate your collection for potential, keep only those that rank the highest at least 7 out of 10.
Do not sell or pass on trees that have major flaws or cannot be fixed.
 

leatherback

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There is a more responsible thing to do with shit trees than sell them to others.
But.. What is shit to you might become a great tree with someone else. I have seen a number of my shitty trees turn in nice little trees in someone elses hands.
 
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There is a more responsible thing to do with shit trees than sell them to others.

No sense perpetuating the ongoing care of garbage.


Sorce
You know how I hate to be picky, but you uppity guys with, "higher standards" :rolleyes: seem to be having a holier than thou contest. As to club auctions, they are very good place for newbeies to acquire cheap stuff to kill. Club auctions raise funds for club events and are an event in itself that benefits everyone involved. They can't exist unless us senior upperclass superiors allow the rabble access to our outcasts. Most importantly, if we don't pass on what we don't want, exactly what would be auctioned?
 

sorce

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But.. What is shit to you might become a great tree with someone else. I have seen a number of my shitty trees turn in nice little trees in someone elses hands.

Shitty is relative.

I think you and Notme are confusing a whole bunch of trees that need serious change of direction, direction at all, some time, and a little love...

With shit material.

Shit material isn't worth the picking up to hand over.

Sorce
 

River's Edge

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You know how I hate to be picky, but you uppity guys with, "higher standards" :rolleyes: seem to be having a holier than thou contest. As to club auctions, they are very good place for newbeies to acquire cheap stuff to kill. Club auctions raise funds for club events and are an event in itself that benefits everyone involved. They can't exist unless us senior upperclass superiors allow the rabble access to our outcasts. Most importantly, if we don't pass on what we don't want, exactly what would be auctioned?
Absolutely great rationale for perpetuating mediocrity! Why seek to improve? Lets just pretend good enough is! Future generations trained to think because it raises a bit of money that is the purpose of Bonsai Clubs! I bet that is why attendance is through the roof for most Bonsai Clubs. Tons of new recruits barely replacing the disappointed ones who left! We can be satisfied with less, it makes money. What could be a higher standard? And it allows new people to kill trees, outstanding purpose for Bonsai education.
Actually I suspect the clubs with higher standards grow and thrive longer. Uppity is just a frame of mind! Perhaps uppity is really those who think they can do Bonsai when really they are playing with sticks in pots! Those who can do, Nothing to do with class or socioeconomic standing.
But I would not want to disparage anyone with a genuine interest in the art form. Nor would I wish to be picky!
 

leatherback

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I think you and Notme are confusing a whole bunch of trees that need serious change of direction, direction at all, some time, and a little love...

With shit material.
Not really for me ;) . See my first post in this thread ;)
But maybe I am alreay picky enough from the start that I do not get real real shitty trees into the yard. (Why bring something home that has absolutely no chance of ever amounting to anything..)

And yeah, shit is relative. But once again.. I have seen trees that I really thought were shit, turn into a great tree in less than 2 years (Of course, club members like to show off, look at what you gave me last spring!). So I have left it to the others to decide. I rarely bin things (But I have planted heaps of sticks from pots into a growing field to overcome things in come 10 years).


Why the * are @NotSorce and @Forsoothe! using the same icon? Way too confusing. Unless confusion is the intent in which case.. :(
 

Velodog2

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Possibly the wrong attitude, but I tend to keep working them. Do an air layer. Practice carving, or grafting. Cut them down to an inch of trunk. Just keep the first branch. I know it depends and your shitty may not be my shitty, but I’ve had a number of ugly ducks turn into swans with time (usually just prior to me killing them). My enjoyment of bonsai is in the process and creation more than the product, and i have space, so I figure it doesn’t take any more time to water a few questionable ones along with the others. Although planting in the ground is still certainly a good tactic as well.
 

Nybonsai12

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When I decide i no longer want a tree because i don’t want to try and fix its problems I either sell it, gift it or throw it across the yard. It’s a good system.
 

sorce

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Not really for me ;) . See my first post in this thread

Ok.

Shitty is Relative.

Relative is "considered in relation to something else".

So, your scope of "something else" is going to define your "relative".

It is very clear that ....
maybe I am alreay picky enough from the start that I do not get real real shitty trees into the yard

Since it is impossible to turn a shitty tree into a great tree in 2 years.

Your scope of "something else" is limiting this, leaving you here arguing semantics with me.

Some people have Good Days and Bad Days.
As our experience grows, we add increments onto this scale.
Great Days, Good Days, Bad Days, Terrible Days.
Awesome Days, Great Days, Good Days, OK Days, Bad Days, Terrible Days, etc.

Since your worst day definition always gets worse, and good day definitions always get better, we have to add increments or change definitions.

I am merely trying to show you a larger scope of "something else's", and you are not accepting it. That is ok. But I don't want to argue.

This is true.
your shitty may not be my shitty,

What I'm saying is, while we all have different shitty's......

I am speaking of the actual mathematical bottom end of the spectrum.

What is MOST IMPORTANT...

Is this is only in regards to giving something away to a newb.

Even the shittiest of shitty trees can be made into something good.
But there has to be value in what you are doing over what the newb can do on their own.
Honest and greed come into play here.

To me, there is less value in a first year already potted Juniper for a newb, because they miss out on the education of repotting it, and usually, they can buy 3 equal value nursery J's for the same price as that one, get some education, and not have to store a shitty Chinese pot.😉

Of course, there is also a level of sentimentality that comes into play, since we are humans. Sentimental value can be greater than actual value, and this is ok, so long as it is spoken of.

My Greatest Days were when my kids were born.
Does that mean people with no kids haven't had a great day? No.

A shitty day for me at one point was the last day of a week eating only rice and sugar.
Then I lost my employment and housing on the same day a couple weeks after I lost my transportation and that became a "shitty" day.

You know what else is relative, life experience.

Mathematically, I have been in a position to have had more life experience than anyone here for almost ten years.
Since one can both always learn, and rarely learn.

You need not consider me wise, or correct.

The wise do.

Chalk this into the book of "arguments".

Sorce

P.S. I didn't want to have to, but it seems I might need to write the equation to keep the best collection.
It exists.
Are there any actual mathematicians here?
Cuz the equation for the perfect tree needs to happen too.
 

Mike Hennigan

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My collection has been a bit of a revolving door in the last couple years. I’m acquiring better material and trying to move away from having too many long term development projects. As in seedlings that I thought I would develop a trunk for etc. the last two years I have put up a lot of material in a silent auction at my club. I just put dollar starting bids. Nicer stuff people bid higher. I’m mostly just glad to see it go to other bonsai people and leave my garden. They’re doing me a favor by taking this stuff and if I can raise some money for the club at the same time It’s a win win.
 
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