Depot Eastern Hemlock

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In that first linked video David Easterbrook mentioned 700-900 named varieties of Tsuga canadensis. “Very variable” indeed. I’m surprised there is so much interest in naming varieties whereas from my uninformed perspective, there seems very little consumer interest in the species.

I found another video in queue with a weepier variety:

 

BobbyLane

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I live in the land of the Hemlock . I can not agree that they look just like spruce . And do not weep . Foliage and growth habit are not spruce like . They do have a apical dominant leader . But it almost always has a leaning or non upright habit . In its native habitat . It is a climax tree often growing with sugar maple . Both trees create heavy shade that only there seedlings can survive . The hemlock often grow very slowly in the shade waiting for the canopy to open and give them a chance to grow . They often have a elongated weeping habit in the forest . They grow more upright in better light . There are multiple cultivars in the nursery trade . A lot of them are prostrate and or weeping in habit . The pic shows 3 I have the largest is seed grown what I would say regular version grown in fairly good light . The 2 dwarfs are very different the weeping characteristics is apparent in the middle one . The far left is considered the slowest growing version . But it has very small tight foliage and very upright growth . Notice @MrFancyPlants tree in this thread has very different habit then his wild collected tree . These trees have some very unique characteristics and are difficult to pigeon hole with other conifers . Including there ability to heal wounds that rival or superior to most Dicid trees . There love if rich organic soil and ability to tolerate shade . I’m surprised you have not mentioned observing them in the landscape my understanding is they are heavily planted in the UK
saying they grow wild where you are but then dont post any images of wild trees:)

I can only base my observations on images ive seen online, these are Eastern Hemlock trees and they definitely look similar to Spruce to me, im not gonna post any Spruces for comparison though, as its pretty clear. Im aware that there is also a 'weeping' variety of Hemlock, I have seen it online.
Eastern hemlock by janusz-hiker, on Flickr

Eastern Hemlock by blueman053, on Flickr

Eastern Hemlock by fullcirclepiece, on Flickr

tons more examples online. I can see how when they get really overgrown and 'shaggy' it could look like theyre weeping, maybe.
 

BobbyLane

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In that first linked video David Easterbrook mentioned 700-900 named varieties of Tsuga canadensis. “Very variable” indeed. I’m surprised there is so much interest in naming varieties whereas from my uninformed perspective, there seems very little consumer interest in the species.

I found another video in queue with a weepier variety:

true. but im not going to get into all that. Im just aware of the ones ive posted that look a lot like Spruce and a 'weeping' variety:)
 
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I recommend visiting a mature hemlock grove if you get the chance, though I couldn’t tell you exactly where to find one. The temperature drops and they are quiet like a snowfall. Very peaceful places.

I agree that the wild types are generally very upright Christmas tree like shapes. Though sometimes the small ones get beaten down and around while waiting for their spotlight to grow. Unfortunately, east Coast U.S. it is difficult to find them in collectible areas, because all but private land is off limits, (that I know of).

For the most part I don’t try to emulate their natural form in bonsai for a couple reasons. One, it is very hard to understand the mature Hemlock form because they are so big and in heavy forests. I think the closest approximation would be a large stick in a pot with the top of the tree obscured.. not a very interesting bonsai. Two, the foliage is so fine and graceful that it is perfectly to scale for a deciduous tree. To me, that gives me leeway to style as an oak or a willow, or a “fantasy” tree.
Which brings up the deadwood question again. If I am styling as a deciduous, should I not have the deadwood? More practically I am going with process of elimination and working with what the tree provides, accepting graceful lines where I can using clip and grow.
 
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Not that I rule out wiring. I am just very bad at it with a mild genetic neuropathy. I can’t wait for my bother in law to come to town to wire up my wild type. I’m not sure if it will happen this winter or next.
 

Frozentreehugger

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saying they grow wild where you are but then dont post any images of wild trees:)

I can only base my observations on images ive seen online, these are Eastern Hemlock trees and they definitely look similar to Spruce to me, im not gonna post any Spruces for comparison though, as its pretty clear. Im aware that there is also a 'weeping' variety of Hemlock, I have seen it online.
Eastern hemlock by janusz-hiker, on Flickr

Eastern Hemlock by blueman053, on Flickr

Eastern Hemlock by fullcirclepiece, on Flickr

tons more examples online. I can see how when they get really overgrown and 'shaggy' it could look like theyre weeping, maybe.
Your images are fairly good . As you say generally they weep more when as you say there shaggy and older . Or as I said in the shade . They are very shade tolerant but growth habit is light dependent . They grow upright in good light . Did not mean to imply they weep as much as some trees . Like weeping willow . Just that they weep more then most conifers . And a lot of the cultivars reflect that . I basically brought it up to point out the difference in the tree in this thread compared to others . Being a nursery tree it may have more weeping characteristics that’s all . If you want pics of mature old growth trees I can get some next time I’m at my cottage . My comments on spruce like is in relation to the foliage . And growth habit hemlock are a elongating flat foliaged tree. . More like a Douglas fir or even a redwood then the stiff whorl growth of a spruce or fir . I am. Not trying to be argumentative in any way. Was just trying to explain to you . There growth habits . Considering your not familiar with seeing them in nature . As for there lack of use in nursery trade . There a acquired taste . I feel we forget that nurseries are in business . Selling trees . Not necessarily the best trees for a given situation . Hemlocks soil preference . Lack of pollution tolerance Somewhat slow growth play against it . There attributes are ignored . Also in the bonsai world there largest drawback . Is difficulty of finding suitable stunted wild trees . They just don’t grow in the right locations . Out west in the mountains yes . In the east no . They make great bonsai . But we are not in Japan . So no one has a one that’s been in a pot for 100 years . If they did it would be stunning 🤩. Like I said I have read . There is significant amount of eastern in gardens in the UK . And the climate is ideal . Have a great day
 
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I did a bit more cutting back this afternoon.14FC6190-A989-4A82-A846-AC0AF695EB86.jpeg
I think I am getting close to being able to make the big decisions that I need to make. There are only a couple branches that I am keeping longer for strength even though I know they need to be cut back.513BC37C-F3DA-4BF3-9F66-B61053DE2E1C.jpeg66881750-CB5E-425A-9380-80C0ED63142A.jpeg
Following is one branch I think I need to chase back. The top of the two thick parallel branches. The bottom branch I cut back a while for maybe deadwood.4289EC61-2190-41C0-8C03-B9431C3B7068.jpeg
Here is is from the other side. Aforementioned branch is the dense foliage to the lower right of the Jin sulphur. The more I look at it the more I need to cut it back. Though it should be getting a lot more light than it did a couple weeks ago. The branch right next to the sulphur I could cut back a fair amount, but I don’t want to weaken too much around the dieback. Also I don’t know if I can bring it back in far enough for it to really work, but for now it stays.A8EEB12E-915A-4A24-BF80-8ADC7B1E7138.jpeg
 

Frozentreehugger

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I did a bit more cutting back this afternoon.View attachment 455188
I think I am getting close to being able to make the big decisions that I need to make. There are only a couple branches that I am keeping longer for strength even though I know they need to be cut back.View attachment 455183View attachment 455184
Following is one branch I think I need to chase back. The top of the two thick parallel branches. The bottom branch I cut back a while for maybe deadwood.View attachment 455186
Here is is from the other side. Aforementioned branch is the dense foliage to the lower right of the Jin sulphur. The more I look at it the more I need to cut it back. Though it should be getting a lot more light than it did a couple weeks ago. The branch right next to the sulphur I could cut back a fair amount, but I don’t want to weaken too much around the dieback. Also I don’t know if I can bring it back in far enough for it to really work, but for now it stays.View attachment 455185
Your thinking makes a lot more sense . With the trunk opened up so you can see it better . I think consideration need to be made . These trees are a hard wood major sections don’t bend easily . The upper movement of the trunk . Needs to be considered . In relation choosing a front . You. Have options . Only real no no would be it moving directly rearward . The big bulge growth of lower branches needs to be dealt with but there is options . Interior growth may be a concern . Depending on style . But it looks great . Lots of options still
 
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I didn’t make it to that workshop last weekend. Nature’s way never got back to me after I filled out their web form for the workshop, but I was planning on heading over there anyways, but family and holidays was keeping me busy.

Instead of the workshop I thought I’d try to take some decent photos to mixed results. Can I upload a video here? What format/size should I use?

I’m thinking of repotting into this Yixing pot in the Spring. I don’t think I did too much work on it this year. The pot is a little small though maybe. I think it wouldn’t be to small health wise, but from an aesthetic/stability perspective.13105010-19DA-4C5E-A346-73B4BBB62428.jpeg023CAD00-62F3-4463-9BD9-B680008C9019.jpeg
 

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Let’s see if I can get a 360 video up…. I know we are try to avoid showing the hand of the artist, oh well.

 
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This tree definitely has some potential to be quite nice. Getting it to a workshop where you can have someone with years of experience styling trees could really take it to the next level. I recommend doing that before doing any more work alone. Having someone else work with you opens up options that you may have overlooked. Looking forward to seeing it progress.
 

Frozentreehugger

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I like the pot . Especially the colour . As discussed before you need to make a decision on style . And or a front . A workshop and or the input of more experienced practitioners .can be beneficial . But at the end of the day it’s your tree . It needs to be your vision . Even if it’s not the mainstream idea . You will be much happier with the results . This species can be temperamental health wise . There are multiple opinions especially concerning . Compost . You have success in there care . But I would exercise restraint . Repotting and styling . In a rapid time frame .
 
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I agree with both of you in that I would like to take to a workshop, but then stick to my decisions on which branches can go, with more experienced inputs to guide me. However, I’m just having a hard time lining up a good workshop.
I was hoping with some attempts at more quality photos and the 360, maybe some crucial vison for the tree would jump out at someone, but it is a hard tree to see into even in person.

@Frozentreehugger tou are probably right to wait another year before fitting into a smaller pot and I have plenty of other hemlocks to repot. 7 little guys and a larger literati that could be repotted this Spring or next.

I do think Depot could handle it all right based on the size of the roots on last repot, and how quickly it regained vigor. I did a fair amount of cutting back this year, but it wasn’t a major styling.. just some branch selection.

My collected one I’ll repot the Spring after next(2024) to get it shallower in its new Sara Rayner pot.

The little ones I decided to style as small as I can and designate some new sacrifices to grow back out. I was to see if I can arrest Hemlock’s tendency to grow out further away from the trunk by starting the training younger.
 

Frozentreehugger

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If your like me I find it really difficult. To look at a tree picture and make style design . Choices . It’s much more difficult than having the tree in front of you in 3d and ability to move it into different positions . That being said a winter to do list is to find a good photo shop app . I think it will be a beneficial addition for styling trees . You may want to think about that yourself .
 
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If your like me I find it really difficult. To look at a tree picture and make style design . Choices . It’s much more difficult than having the tree in front of you in 3d and ability to move it into different positions . That being said a winter to do list is to find a good photo shop app . I think it will be a beneficial addition for styling trees . You may want to think about that yourself .


I may bring out the “gimp,” (free image editing software) to virtual “Depot” into the new yixing. I have attempted virtual on other’s trees before, but not yet on my own tree.
 

Frozentreehugger

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I would be very tempted . To turn the tree so the large growth near the base was the front . 90 degrees counter clockwise from your latest group pics no 1 pic . This growth should be reduced to dead wood . As a focal point at base front of tree . You could even do a hollow trunk . But I would start with a carved chunk . ( sawdust is hard to glue back together ) 😂. This has several advantages . Most notable the top of the tree would lean towards the front in general form . And flaws like the broken top and the 2 branches above each other . Are moved to the rear and or more out of sight easier to deal with .front 90 degrees from this angle in both directions are possible fronts . Again with the low growth likely carved and The natural slant of the trunk a key element . 180 degrees turn has a nice base of the trunk but the most flaws from there . The double branches and the top moving away from the front being the most notable . The low trunk growth positioned off to the side and alive . As a windswept or even a semi cascade . With a vast amount of the rest greatly reduced or deadwood is also a possible . I like the first choice best a stately graceful upright tree . With a dead base adding age factor . Branch arrangement and top movement is best with the material you have . Plus the dead part at the top may be easier to eliminate conpletly and heal over out of sight as a option . Hope this helps
 
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I would be very tempted . To turn the tree so the large growth near the base was the front . 90 degrees counter clockwise from your latest group pics no 1 pic . This growth should be reduced to dead wood . As a focal point at base front of tree . You could even do a hollow trunk . But I would start with a carved chunk . ( sawdust is hard to glue back together ) 😂. This has several advantages . Most notable the top of the tree would lean towards the front in general form . And flaws like the broken top and the 2 branches above each other . Are moved to the rear and or more out of sight easier to deal with .front 90 degrees from this angle in both directions are possible fronts . Again with the low growth likely carved and The natural slant of the trunk a key element . 180 degrees turn has a nice base of the trunk but the most flaws from there . The double branches and the top moving away from the front being the most notable . The low trunk growth positioned off to the side and alive . As a windswept or even a semi cascade . With a vast amount of the rest greatly reduced or deadwood is also a possible . I like the first choice best a stately graceful upright tree . With a dead base adding age factor . Branch arrangement and top movement is best with the material you have . Plus the dead part at the top may be easier to eliminate conpletly and heal over out of sight as a option . Hope this helps
For your first suggestion, is that around 20 seconds in the video?

The second of the the two parallel branches was cut dead a while ago, I actually did some work peeling the bark off of it today, and the top one of the parallel branches is likely to be reduced by half as well. Bottom one maybe should be reduced completely; I was keeping options open.
 
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saying they grow wild where you are but then dont post any images of wild trees:)

I can only base my observations on images ive seen online, these are Eastern Hemlock trees and they definitely look similar to Spruce to me, im not gonna post any Spruces for comparison though, as its pretty clear. Im aware that there is also a 'weeping' variety of Hemlock, I have seen it online.
Eastern hemlock by janusz-hiker, on Flickr

Eastern Hemlock by blueman053, on Flickr

Eastern Hemlock by fullcirclepiece, on Flickr

tons more examples online. I can see how when they get really overgrown and 'shaggy' it could look like theyre weeping, maybe.
I picked up a few little ones last fall with not great movement nor taper. I think your post has inspired me to go with a grove instead of shohin. Or, better yet, what if I went shohin for a while and then assembled the forrest.
I’m coming up on
5-years from collecting at the big box store. If I could get in the Native 5yr contest I might have to repot this Spring instead of next.
 

Frozentreehugger

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I picked up a few little ones last fall with not great movement nor taper. I think your post has inspired me to go with a grove instead of shohin. Or, better yet, what if I went shohin for a while and then assembled the forrest.
I’m coming up on
5-years from collecting at the big box store. If I could get in the Native 5yr contest I might have to repot this Spring instead of next.
Sounds good that’s my intentions . With the Betty rose cultivar I have . Currently only have one . But there should be more avail this spring . Sone would say there a little pricey for a very small tree . And arguable the slowest growing EH . But they are fairly upright and have crazy dwarf tight foliage. So I’m thinking shohin . And at a latter date maybe a small 3 or 5 tree forest
 
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