derek7745's first maple - advice is welcome!

  • Thread starter Deleted member 21616
  • Start date

MACH5

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
6,067
Reaction score
28,403
Location
Northern New Jersey
I would keep the lower branch. I would treat it more as a second trunk than as a first branch. It is what gives this tree it's own special character.
 

Smoke

Ignore-Amus
Messages
11,668
Reaction score
20,724
Location
Fresno, CA
USDA Zone
9
Maybe that road salt thing would work on the trees?
 
D

Deleted member 21616

Guest
I would keep the lower branch. I would treat it more as a second trunk than as a first branch. It is what gives this tree it's own special character.

Thank you! Lots to consider! I find it so difficult to view and decide on a finished shape!

Thank you!
D
 
D

Deleted member 21616

Guest
Maybe that road salt thing would work on the trees?

hahaha! You mean to remove the ice so that the tree has traction on the ground throughout the winter? :)
 

Smoke

Ignore-Amus
Messages
11,668
Reaction score
20,724
Location
Fresno, CA
USDA Zone
9
It's all about the traction!
 
D

Deleted member 21616

Guest
Kaneshin tools just showed up!

Thank you @Q-Bonsai

Now I wish I had more stuff to cut...

D
 

Attachments

  • IMG_3430.jpg
    IMG_3430.jpg
    526 KB · Views: 53

LanceMac10

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
6,798
Reaction score
17,176
Location
Nashua, NH U.S.A.
USDA Zone
5
Swank carpet!! Whozz' the balla'?!?!:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Don't show 'em to your trees until their ready.;)

Nice!!:cool::cool::cool:
 
D

Deleted member 21616

Guest
Hi All,

I thought I would share some pics.

The tree grew well all summer!

This weekend I will be brining it to the local nursery for winter storage.

I am thinking about performing a major trunk cut (before/during winter dormancy?)-- advice is VERY welcome!!

Thank you
D
 

Attachments

  • IMG_5505.JPG
    IMG_5505.JPG
    314.2 KB · Views: 45
  • IMG_5503.JPG
    IMG_5503.JPG
    248.3 KB · Views: 45
  • IMG_5504.JPG
    IMG_5504.JPG
    291.2 KB · Views: 41
  • IMG_5506.JPG
    IMG_5506.JPG
    339.7 KB · Views: 41
  • IMG_5507.JPG
    IMG_5507.JPG
    321 KB · Views: 40
  • IMG_5508.JPG
    IMG_5508.JPG
    301.8 KB · Views: 40

0soyoung

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
7,496
Reaction score
12,832
Location
Anacortes, WA (AHS heat zone 1)
USDA Zone
8b
I am thinking about performing a major trunk cut (before/during winter dormancy?
No the best idea with acer palmatum. Very high risk (certainty?) of die back. Then you will be left with the challenge of figuring out how to deal with something similar to this:

full


Do it next spring
 
D

Deleted member 21616

Guest
No the best idea with acer palmatum. Very high risk (certainty?) of die back. Then you will be left with the challenge of figuring out how to deal with something similar to this:

Do it next spring

Thank you! Much appreciated!

D
 

EPM

Mame
Messages
100
Reaction score
52
Location
NE Ohio
USDA Zone
6
Hi all,

Again thank you all for sharing so much information. I have been lurking on this website for a while, and finally decided to make the jump into bonsai myself!

Yesterday I went to Bonsai ENR in Quebec, Canada, and bought my first bonsai: an Acer Palmatum "select", whose parent tree apparently came from Vertrees in Oregon. I will be growing this tree outdoors in Montreal (but will take into a garage in the winter).

This branch was planted 15-20 years ago, i was told.

I wanted something with a trunk that was really wide down low, with a thick and very low first branch. This one satisfied those criteria.

I of course welcome any tips, recommendations, and visions! This is all brand new to me :)

I was told not to re-plant or graft until March or April. Would any of you recommend grafting in June/July or is this risky? I was going to use a lower, long, thin branch from the tree and pass it through a hole that I would drill higher-up on the tree.

Thank you!
Derek

I'm not sure if you ever figured out your overwintering situation or if you have since acquired more plants but I thought I would share what I'm doing. Since you only have one tree(maybe that's still the case?) I have a simple solution to your winter/freezing concerns. You will have to make some small purchases:

1. On Amazon get one of these seedling heat mats: VIVOSUN Durable Waterproof Seedling Heat Mat Warm Hydroponic Heating Pad 10" x 20.75" MET Standard

2. and one of these digital temperature controllers: Inkbird ITC-308:

3. A styrofoam cooler that will accommodate your plant pot/container and the seedling heat mat.

4. Some pine bark mulch (or an alternative)

Poke/cut/drill some drainage holes in the bottom of the styrofoam cooler. Place the seedling heat mat in the bottom. Ideally it will fit in the bottom nicely but you might have to fold it over (though I wouldn't "crease" the seedling mat for fear of damaging it). Place a layer (several centimeters) of pine bark mulch on top of the heat mat to act as a buffer (also to absorb water) and put the temperature sensor on top of the mulch then place your pot on top of it. Fill the gaps on the sides with more pine bark mulch and as high up the trunk as you desire. Set the temperature controller to whatever temperature you desire but maybe 32 degrees F. for starters. Place the whole setup in your unheated garage, plug it in, and configure the controller. Check the plant regularly and water as you deem appropriate. With one plant, digging it out of the mulch, checking the soil, watering, and replacing won't be a big deal.

I made a slight variant of this for my smaller and less hardy plants. Built my own box out of cedar pickets and insulated it with styrofoam. It's in an unheated shed and I live in northern Ohio. I've already had one night where temps dropped to 20 degrees F and the system performed flawlessly for me. The seedling heat mats are fairly low wattage but are designed to keep seeds/seedlings at 10 degrees or so above ambient temperature which with styrofoam and mulch providing insulation will easily keep your roots from getting too cold. I don't think you will need a lid but you could try to cover the top if it was feasible.

For the price the temperature controller is a bargain, in my opinion, and I can assure you that after a few nights of checking it you will not lose any sleep over the idea of your plant freezing to death. I think in your garage with some insulation your maple on it's own might be fine without any additional protection (I don't have enough experience to say for sure), but this setup will remove any doubt.

The only downside is that it does not scale easily so if you plan on buying more plants that need winter protection in the near term keep that in mind.

Anyways, hope this helps, and good luck!
 

M. Frary

Bonsai Godzilla
Messages
14,307
Reaction score
22,116
Location
Mio Michigan
USDA Zone
4
No the best idea with acer palmatum. Very high risk (certainty?) of die back. Then you will be left with the challenge of figuring out how to deal with something similar to this:

full


Do it next spring
Pretty graphic looking.
 
D

Deleted member 21616

Guest
I'm not sure if you ever figured out your overwintering situation ...

Thank you!

This is fantastic information!

D
 

rockm

Spuds Moyogi
Messages
14,182
Reaction score
22,184
Location
Fairfax Va.
USDA Zone
7
I'm not sure if you ever figured out your overwintering situation or if you have since acquired more plants but I thought I would share what I'm doing. Since you only have one tree(maybe that's still the case?) I have a simple solution to your winter/freezing concerns. You will have to make some small purchases:

1. On Amazon get one of these seedling heat mats: VIVOSUN Durable Waterproof Seedling Heat Mat Warm Hydroponic Heating Pad 10" x 20.75" MET Standard

2. and one of these digital temperature controllers: Inkbird ITC-308:

3. A styrofoam cooler that will accommodate your plant pot/container and the seedling heat mat.

4. Some pine bark mulch (or an alternative)

Poke/cut/drill some drainage holes in the bottom of the styrofoam cooler. Place the seedling heat mat in the bottom. Ideally it will fit in the bottom nicely but you might have to fold it over (though I wouldn't "crease" the seedling mat for fear of damaging it). Place a layer (several centimeters) of pine bark mulch on top of the heat mat to act as a buffer (also to absorb water) and put the temperature sensor on top of the mulch then place your pot on top of it. Fill the gaps on the sides with more pine bark mulch and as high up the trunk as you desire. Set the temperature controller to whatever temperature you desire but maybe 32 degrees F. for starters. Place the whole setup in your unheated garage, plug it in, and configure the controller. Check the plant regularly and water as you deem appropriate. With one plant, digging it out of the mulch, checking the soil, watering, and replacing won't be a big deal.

I made a slight variant of this for my smaller and less hardy plants. Built my own box out of cedar pickets and insulated it with styrofoam. It's in an unheated shed and I live in northern Ohio. I've already had one night where temps dropped to 20 degrees F and the system performed flawlessly for me. The seedling heat mats are fairly low wattage but are designed to keep seeds/seedlings at 10 degrees or so above ambient temperature which with styrofoam and mulch providing insulation will easily keep your roots from getting too cold. I don't think you will need a lid but you could try to cover the top if it was feasible.

For the price the temperature controller is a bargain, in my opinion, and I can assure you that after a few nights of checking it you will not lose any sleep over the idea of your plant freezing to death. I think in your garage with some insulation your maple on it's own might be fine without any additional protection (I don't have enough experience to say for sure), but this setup will remove any doubt.

The only downside is that it does not scale easily so if you plan on buying more plants that need winter protection in the near term keep that in mind.

Anyways, hope this helps, and good luck!

I would NOT advise using seedling heat mats to overwinter ANYTHING. The idea with protecting bonsai IS NOT TO KEEP THEM "WARM." Keeping a heat mat under a bonsai will keep a tree pretty much too warm. if you set it wrong either cook your roots, or force early bud break.

The idea overwintering is to protect roots from the cold extremes of winter--keep them as cold as possible, for as long as possible.-- Japanese maples are pretty winter hardy plants and aren't as delicate as some would assume.

Overwintering set ups shouldn't be all that complicated. The less complicated the better for the trees and you. Simply healing the tree into a protected, well-drained spot in your yard or garden and covering the plant with mulch, or mulching the tree on the floor of your garage are probably less complicated, adequate overwintering options...
 
D

Deleted member 21616

Guest
I would NOT advise using seedling heat mats to overwinter ANYTHING. The idea with protecting bonsai IS NOT TO KEEP THEM "WARM." Keeping a heat mat under a bonsai will keep a tree pretty much too warm. if you set it wrong either cook your roots, or force early bud break.

The idea overwintering is to protect roots from the cold extremes of winter--keep them as cold as possible, for as long as possible.-- Japanese maples are pretty winter hardy plants and aren't as delicate as some would assume.

Overwintering set ups shouldn't be all that complicated. The less complicated the better for the trees and you. Simply healing the tree into a protected, well-drained spot in your yard or garden and covering the plant with mulch, or mulching the tree on the floor of your garage are probably less complicated, adequate overwintering options...

Thanks for your contribution to this!

Perhaps your Virginia winters are different from what they can be here in Quebec? We can hit -30F without the wind (and -40F with the wind) for several consecutive days. The ground is frozen solid about 4 feet deep in most places where I am in the city of Montreal.

As an aside, i ended up bringing this tree to a local nursery, in order to extend the fall season, and get an early start in spring.

I'm undergoing a move to a new house at the moment, and plan to take on a few more trees next spring. I will try to build a shed over the summer, to prepare for next Winter. It was my intention to place a heater in the shed, in order to prevent the temperature from ever dropping below -15F (more or less), while still permitting a proper winter period -- any thoughts?

Thank you
D
 

rockm

Spuds Moyogi
Messages
14,182
Reaction score
22,184
Location
Fairfax Va.
USDA Zone
7
Thanks for your contribution to this!

Perhaps your Virginia winters are different from what they can be here in Quebec? We can hit -30F without the wind (and -40F with the wind) for several consecutive days. The ground is frozen solid about 4 feet deep in most places where I am in the city of Montreal.

As an aside, i ended up bringing this tree to a local nursery, in order to extend the fall season, and get an early start in spring.

I'm undergoing a move to a new house at the moment, and plan to take on a few more trees next spring. I will try to build a shed over the summer, to prepare for next Winter. It was my intention to place a heater in the shed, in order to prevent the temperature from ever dropping below -15F (more or less), while still permitting a proper winter period -- any thoughts?

Thank you
D
Best thing to do is find out what others IN YOUR AREA are doing to overwinter their trees. Heaters may be the thing up there. I don't really know, but I'd bet they're not...They are a very weak link to rely on.
 

Dav4

Drop Branch Murphy
Messages
13,019
Reaction score
29,702
Location
SE MI- Bonsai'd for 12 years both MA and N GA
USDA Zone
6a
Thanks for your contribution to this!

Perhaps your Virginia winters are different from what they can be here in Quebec? We can hit -30F without the wind (and -40F with the wind) for several consecutive days. The ground is frozen solid about 4 feet deep in most places where I am in the city of Montreal.

As an aside, i ended up bringing this tree to a local nursery, in order to extend the fall season, and get an early start in spring.

I'm undergoing a move to a new house at the moment, and plan to take on a few more trees next spring. I will try to build a shed over the summer, to prepare for next Winter. It was my intention to place a heater in the shed, in order to prevent the temperature from ever dropping below -15F (more or less), while still permitting a proper winter period -- any thoughts?

Thank you
D
That sounds too cold for most Acer palmatum cultivars. In the landscape, they're typically not hardy below -20F, and in pots, they'd certainly require significant protection from the typical Montreal winter cold. I'm with Rockm in that I'm not sure a seedling mat in a styrofoam cooler is the way to go as I think it would be to easy to keep the roots too warm. Access to an attached garage or a deep cold frame would be something I'd suggest looking at. Good luck.
 

M. Frary

Bonsai Godzilla
Messages
14,307
Reaction score
22,116
Location
Mio Michigan
USDA Zone
4
Perhaps your Virginia winters are different from what they can be here in Quebec? We can hit -30F without the wind (and -40F with the wind) for several consecutive days. The ground is frozen solid about 4 feet deep in most places where I am in the city of Montreal
I get the same winters. All of my trees are kept outside. No heaters,the only shelter is steel walls all the way around them. They're open to the sky and some of the taller ones poke above the wall. The only reason for the steel wall is to keep rodents out. Which from my experience will kill trees more than any amount of cold.
Like @rockm says a heater would be bad. I also don't recommend keeping trees in a shed,garage or any other outbuildings. Snow,deep snow is your best friend in winter. It keeps the trees insulated from cold.
It will be wise for you to try trees zoned for your area.
Japanese Maples, Japanese Black Pine,Zelcova,Chinese elms are out.
But Tamaracks,Scots pines,Mugo pines,Jack pines,most junipers,spruce,American and Siberian elms,Amur maples will be good for you.
I've learned that keeping out of zone trees is hard at best,a losing battle.
Also if relying on heaters what happens if there is a power outage?
 

rockm

Spuds Moyogi
Messages
14,182
Reaction score
22,184
Location
Fairfax Va.
USDA Zone
7
Thanks for your contribution to this!

Perhaps your Virginia winters are different from what they can be here in Quebec? We can hit -30F without the wind (and -40F with the wind) for several consecutive days. The ground is frozen solid about 4 feet deep in most places where I am in the city of Montreal.

As an aside, i ended up bringing this tree to a local nursery, in order to extend the fall season, and get an early start in spring.

I'm undergoing a move to a new house at the moment, and plan to take on a few more trees next spring. I will try to build a shed over the summer, to prepare for next Winter. It was my intention to place a heater in the shed, in order to prevent the temperature from ever dropping below -15F (more or less), while still permitting a proper winter period -- any thoughts?

Thank you
D
FWIW, trees don't experience wind chill...
 
Top Bottom