deshojo maple

0soyoung

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It's gotten fatter.

Should I leave it get fatter and then ground layer o start cutting one of those roots this year, another one next year and put it on a ceramic disc in a shallow grow box?
I would ground layer only one major root this coming year - the tree should also get fatter too. Then, ground layer the next major root in the following season. Repeat if there are more big ugly ones. I would try to get more foliage growing above weak roots to make them stronger/thicker (sap with which to grow them comes down the tree just like water running down the outside).

Move to bigger containers as it gets larger, until the trunk base is about the thickness you want. Repotting and root work every spring and you'll have a fat trunk base with lovely nebari fairly soon. Then it will be time to chop or layer off part of the top to start developing taper on that trunk. Air layering, IMHO, doesn't really slow the process as opposed to chopping in tossing - I chose air-layer unless the internodes are very long.
 

0soyoung

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what does ground layer a root mean?
Normally, you might just cut the root off. This could eliminate a fairly large fraction of its feeder roots and thus make it slower to grow until they are replaced. Instead you remove a ring of the bark/epidermis at this point on the root, just like you would air layering a branch (but the root girdle is buried in the substrate as in 'ground' layer). Then it continues to supply minerals and nutrients to the tree and the new roots grow from the top of the girdle. I think this is a good way to correct the gawd-awful roots on larger ground grown trees.

On second thought, your tree may be so small that you cannot do this because your thick/heavy roots are just thick/heavy in proportion to your little tree and actually are too small to layer and you'll just have to cut them. Still, do it one fat root at a time and you won't sacrifice progress to a thicker trunk in any significant way.
 

thumblessprimate1

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Considering how hard it was for you to find, I'd just grow it another 3 to 5 years before considering air layer or threading some root grafts. Still much too small and a bit risky. The cultivar roots pretty easily though.
 

barrosinc

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This tree needs something done to the nebari.
And a shallower/larger grow box. I will be lifting it out of the ground in august.
I really do not want to loose it, but the roots are ugly as is.

I am going to start a layer on the tree to get a second deshojo.
 

Jester217300

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Is your trunk done? Is this as fat as you want the tree? I'd say it's not done, I want it bigger and fatter. Agree?

If so don't layer now. You're going to waste a year and have nothing to show for it. The nebari is developing asymmetrically because existing roots are enlarging above the soil level. Next spring repot it into a shallower, wider container. Cut back the large roots hard and bury the base. This will allow for root ramification and will reduce the growth speed of the existing roots. Do this every 2 years while you grow the trunk. At the end of this process you should have a nebari that is good enough to fix with a few grafts. If not you can ground layer at that time.

Ground layering while you're still growing the trunk is going to encourage the same potential problems that you have now.

So I'd work the roots as you're developing the trunk. When the trunk is finished if you're unsatisfied with the nebari ground layer at that time. Doing so now is out of order development wise for the tree.
 

jeremy_norbury

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Not wishing to hijack the thread but - here's a small deshojo I ground layered earlier...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/norbury/sets/72157669977688236

As purchased in a sale
DSC01267 by Jerry Norbury, on Flickr

Smart wiring, real smart
DSC01268 by Jerry Norbury, on Flickr

DSC01274 by Jerry Norbury, on Flickr

DSC01280 by Jerry Norbury, on Flickr

DSC01281 by Jerry Norbury, on Flickr

DSC01285 by Jerry Norbury, on Flickr

DSC01287 by Jerry Norbury, on Flickr

One year later - exposing the nebari - but leaving the original root system in place.
DSC08109 by Jerry Norbury, on Flickr

Another year later...you can't rush this shit.
DSC02160 by Jerry Norbury, on Flickr

DSC02165 by Jerry Norbury, on Flickr

Removed original root system
DSC02166 by Jerry Norbury, on Flickr

DSC02168 by Jerry Norbury, on Flickr

04255750 by Jerry Norbury, on Flickr

06147488 by Jerry Norbury, on Flickr

Another year - shit still not getting rushed
03285156 by Jerry Norbury, on Flickr

Healthy looking Nebari
03285160 by Jerry Norbury, on Flickr

05077092 by Jerry Norbury, on Flickr
 

barrosinc

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Is your trunk done? Is this as fat as you want the tree? I'd say it's not done, I want it bigger and fatter. Agree?

If so don't layer now. You're going to waste a year and have nothing to show for it. The nebari is developing asymmetrically because existing roots are enlarging above the soil level. Next spring repot it into a shallower, wider container. Cut back the large roots hard and bury the base. This will allow for root ramification and will reduce the growth speed of the existing roots. Do this every 2 years while you grow the trunk. At the end of this process you should have a nebari that is good enough to fix with a few grafts. If not you can ground layer at that time.

Ground layering while you're still growing the trunk is going to encourage the same potential problems that you have now.

So I'd work the roots as you're developing the trunk. When the trunk is finished if you're unsatisfied with the nebari ground layer at that time. Doing so now is out of order development wise for the tree.
Thanks, Jester.
No, it is not even close to the thickness I want. It is 3cm or 1.1811 inches. I was thinking at least double.
I want to have a really nice deshojo so pre-branch development I was thinking 8 more years and stick to whatever thickness it has.

Right now it has 4 roots coming out of the base at 90° each. I was thinking burying the base, peeling the bark at the height of the nebari and adding some clonex.






Not wishing to hijack the thread but - here's a small deshojo I ground layered earlier...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/norbury/sets/72157669977688236

As purchased in a sale
Nice one!! How thick is the base?
 

jeremy_norbury

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Small - the tree itself is maybe 1ft tall so I'm guessing it's 1/2-3/4 inch girth.

Cost me €10/$12 :) so the 3 year wait was worth it.
 
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Small - the tree itself is maybe 1ft tall so I'm guessing it's 1/2-3/4 inch girth.

Cost me €10/$12 :) so the 3 year wait was worth it.
You've probably got more invested in latex gloves and fabric soap. Jerry rock'n the plaid cuffs while repotting.
 

Eric Group

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Not wishing to hijack the thread but - here's a small deshojo I ground layered earlier...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/norbury/sets/72157669977688236

As purchased in a sale
DSC01267 by Jerry Norbury, on Flickr

Smart wiring, real smart
DSC01268 by Jerry Norbury, on Flickr

DSC01274 by Jerry Norbury, on Flickr

DSC01280 by Jerry Norbury, on Flickr

DSC01281 by Jerry Norbury, on Flickr

DSC01285 by Jerry Norbury, on Flickr

DSC01287 by Jerry Norbury, on Flickr

One year later - exposing the nebari - but leaving the original root system in place.
DSC08109 by Jerry Norbury, on Flickr

Another year later...you can't rush this shit.
DSC02160 by Jerry Norbury, on Flickr

DSC02165 by Jerry Norbury, on Flickr

Removed original root system
DSC02166 by Jerry Norbury, on Flickr

DSC02168 by Jerry Norbury, on Flickr

04255750 by Jerry Norbury, on Flickr

06147488 by Jerry Norbury, on Flickr

Another year - shit still not getting rushed
03285156 by Jerry Norbury, on Flickr

Healthy looking Nebari
03285160 by Jerry Norbury, on Flickr

05077092 by Jerry Norbury, on Flickr
That is how you get stuff done Jerry! Great step by step progression! Amazing results... Somehow you made the "slingshot" trunk work on this tree too! Thank you for posting this, anyone with any questions about ground layering on this forum going forward should be directed to this post! You oughta put it in Resources.
 

M. Frary

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barrosinc

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My deshojo... Getting thicker and closing a wound.

I think I will chop after two more growing seasons.

IMG-20170615-WA0030.jpeg

IMG-20170615-WA0028.jpeg

Not sure if I should lift and do root work our just ground layer
 

barrosinc

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any comments?
I was thinking on something like this:
Untitled.png

Still not sure if I should let it grow more or start ground layering. Or not ground layer at all.
 
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