Deshojo starter

[Hawke84]

Hi all,
Picked up a Deshojo starter and after some thoughts in progression and a starter for 10.
The heavy branches at the top annoy me, not chopping a thing yet. Needs some taper to it too. Luckily it's covered in buds so fairly healthy.
I'll be sticking it in a training crate shortly on a tile.
Let me know thoughts for future

 

[just.wing.it]

I'll be sticking it in a training crate shortly on a tile.
Let me know thoughts for future

That sounds like a good plan for now!

 

[Hawke84]

That sounds like a good plan for now!

Agree but I like to have a plan for the next few years. I'm in no rush to do it all at once, I'm fairly lazy

 

[Warpig]

Doesn't look to be, but kinda hard to tell. Is it grafted?

 

[Hawke84]

Doesn't look to be, but kinda hard to tell. Is it grafted?

No not grafted, so I assume air layer or cutting.

 

[ajm55555]

No not grafted, so I assume air layer or cutting.

Usually Deshojos are not grafted, especially if sold as pre-bonsais. I've seen larger plants for garden grafted. Additionally, it's difficult to make a graft that goes unnoticed ;-)

 

[Canada Bonsai]

Let me know thoughts for future

Nice tree!

Do you have a vision for the approximate 'final' height of this tree?

You mention the upper branches being too thick. In my view, those branches would never make it to the 'final' design. These branches can be, however, useful material to help with development and it is a good thing that you have kept them!

1 - I think this tree would be a good candidate for the development processs outlined in Meriggioli's Bonsai Maples (see attached images). With Deshojo, it is appropriate to have a tall, slender, and gentle taper, therefore my first cut might be above the first, second, or possibly the third of the current branches. This obviously also gives you full control over the movement in the trunk. Depending on the nebari, that first prune might come anywhere from 1-5 years from now. (a master once half-jokingly said to me: "don't say 'chop', that's street lingo").

2 - Because the current trunkline does already have decent movement, you could use sacrifice branches to introduce more taper to the current trunk.

These are not 2 independent processes, and in most cases it is a combination of the two will get you where you want to go.

I think the biggest mistake one could make with material like this, would be to jump straight to refinement.

Are you familiar with Brian's Chishio?: https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/keep-it-or-cut-it.4383/

Brian's tree is in refinement, not in development like yours, but yours is not too far behind! Very promising material good luck!

 

[Hawke84]

Nice tree!

Do you have a vision for the approximate 'final' height of this tree?

You mention the upper branches being too thick. In my view, those branches would never make it to the 'final' design. These branches can be, however, useful material to help with development and it is a good thing that you have kept them!

1 - I think this tree would be a good candidate for the development processs outlined in Meriggioli's Bonsai Maples (see attached images). With Deshojo, it is appropriate to have a tall, slender, and gentle taper, therefore my first cut might be above the first, second, or possibly the third of the current branches. This obviously also gives you full control over the movement in the trunk. Depending on the nebari, that first prune might come anywhere from 1-5 years from now. (a master once half-jokingly said to me: "don't say 'chop', that's street lingo").

2 - Because the current trunkline does already have decent movement, you could use sacrifice branches to introduce more taper to the current trunk.

These are not 2 independent processes, and in most cases it is a combination of the two will get you where you want to go.

I think the biggest mistake one could make with material like this, would be to jump straight to refinement.

Are you familiar with Brian's Chishio?: https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/keep-it-or-cut-it.4383/

Brian's tree is in refinement, not in development like yours, but yours is not too far behind! Very promising material good luck!

this is a great reply, thank you. i read it as soon as you posted and ive been reflecting on it since and re-reading. I have Meriggioli's book, i havent properly read it yet (job change recently so lots of reading at work!) but its on my list. Ive read Peter Adams Bonsai Maples book thats got similar progression tips.

nebari is pretty much non-existent, its been repotted on a tile today to help with this. its currently upright at the moment as i just wanted to build a bit of vigor this year then i was thinking of changing the planing the angle and starting the root to build a good bit of movement.

 

[Hawke84]

ok this is the potential plan.
1) air layer this season off from the red point and just build some vigor.
2) change planting angle and take the branch down to where indicated in blue
3) continue with trunk line from purple.
4) continue to build the left side branch, maybe use the new bud below the red line.

I figure in 4 - 5 seasons all being well this will be a good start on a tree!

I've take it from Peter Adams maple book and overlayed my plan. hopefully this makes sense.
I know air layering will slow down the development of a single tree but it will give me a bit more material to work with. i like Deshojo's

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Deshojo is a cultivar worth propagating. So taking the time for an air layer is time well spent.