Developing Primary Branches

[Omar]

Hey all,

My question is about technique used to develop primary branches. The tree I'm using as an example is my (poorly) layered BRT.

I bought this on eBay May 2016 to familiarize myself with the species. Still a beginner, I soon realized that I don't have the climate to develop the trunk so I decided to practice my horticultural skills and air layer it. I started the layer in October and separated it in late December (in retrospect probably too hasty and not the best time of year for that work).

The question now is regarding the primary branch on the right side (red). When developing primary branches, do you let the branch grow freely until it's reached the desired thickness then make a flush cut (1) or do you simply trim at a point somewhere along the branch (2) where you want it to end?

The soil is 1/3 organic (1/2 potting soil 1/2 pine bark fines) 2/3 inorganic (pumice, lava, turface, gravel).

Looking forward to everyone's feedback, thanks for looking.

 

[Cypress187]

You want taper in the branch / ramification itself, if you trim it at (2) you won't get much taper and get a very straight (non-tapered) uninteresting branch. The lower branches need the most thickness and also needs to be hardened off more before pruning, so maybe let it grow some more and cut at (1) at some point. If you let it grow longer you will also get more thickness below that branch which will improve the trunk taper. I'm no pro but I think let it grow and cut it back to (1) when it's more hardened and thicker.

 

[sorce]

http://bonsai4me.com/AdvTech/ATDeciduousBonsaiBranchStructure.html

4 parts. 2 pages each.

A Good start!

Sorce

 

[Anthony]

@Omar ,

ask around and see if this tree will trunk thicken in a pot.

Or you may have to ground grow for even the brief 4 to 5 months you may have.

Plus a branch extension to thicken anything is allowed to simply grow.
If however you have the experience you can also use the side extensions on the same branch
to do the same.

Please experiment on rooted cuttings not the mother and use at least 10 victims.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[Omar]

You want taper in the branch / ramification itself, if you trim it at (2) you won't get much taper and get a very straight (non-tapered) uninteresting branch. The lower branches need the most thickness and also needs to be hardened off more before pruning, so maybe let it grow some more and cut at (1) at some point. If you let it grow longer you will also get more thickness below that branch which will improve the trunk taper. I'm no pro but I think let it grow and cut it back to (1) when it's more hardened and thicker.

I think that's the way to go, thanks very much.

http://bonsai4me.com/AdvTech/ATDeciduousBonsaiBranchStructure.html

4 parts. 2 pages each.

A Good start!

Sorce

I've bought 2 of his books I think his work is fantastic, thanks Sorce.

 

[Omar]

@Omar ,

ask around and see if this tree will trunk thicken in a pot.

Or you may have to ground grow for even the brief 4 to 5 months you may have.

Plus a branch extension to thicken anything is allowed to simply grow.
If however you have the experience you can also use the side extensions on the same branch
to do the same.

Please experiment on rooted cuttings not the mother and use at least 10 victims.
Good Day
Anthony

Hi Anthony,

Thanks for your feedback. With this little guy i'm not too concerned with thickening the trunk. I'm shooting for a small shohin/mame sized tree but at the rate this thing grows I'm not sure how that'll work out. I think what I'll do is allow the branches to extend, harden off and cut back.

You're definitely right about experimenting on cuttings but since this cost me about $15 or so I didn't mind. Now I have 2 brave volunteers to experiment with.

 

[sorce]

books

I got one for ushering my fishing buddies wedding!
Most thoughtful gift ever!

Righteous!

Sorce

 

[Paradox]

ask around and see if this tree will trunk thicken in a pot.

They will. Mine have.
Pot is the only option for those of us that have that nasty thing called winter.

It's probably slower than trees grown in the ground in warmer climes, but they do thicken.

 

[Anthony]

@Omar ,

well if it is Mame' [ 6" height according to the Koreshoff ] all you need is a 1" trunk.
And a great deal of interesting movement or grace.
I am sure you can do that. Thumbs up.

@Paradox,

Sandy,

we are presently growing a Celtis l. Just out of fridge [ April 1st ] under the same constraints
as you have in the US.
Still able to produce thick trunks [ 3" plus ] and the tree shuts down just like it does for Winter
in the US.
We make use of the - Spring Flush - which can easily give 6' of growth yearly, once the tree in
a colander is placed into the growing trough.

So I believe if you take a large bottomless container in late spring [ let us believe that this shrub can handle
55 deg.C as it's limit ] and just place it to grow through the container into the ground. Cutting off the
roots at the base of the container when the temperature goes below 55 deg.F.
You might get 4 to 5 months of aggressive growth.

This is why I suggested tests on rooted cuttings.

The grow troughs are roughly, 10 ' long, 2 1/2 feet deep and about 14 " wide, set on concrete.
Trees still grow rapidly.

What we did find was that "grow boxes" were better for ----- refining branches ---- so we call the oversize
grow containers -------- refinement boxes.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Hello Omar,
BRT will trunk up in a pot. The greater the surface area of foliage, the quicker it will happen.

Something to keep in mind, as a general guideline, branches should be less than 50% the diameter of the trunk or sub -trunk that the branch comes off of. This yields a more tree like appearance, rather than shrub in a tub appearance. Exceptions exist, but as a loose guide this is worth keeping as a goal.

BRT bud back reasonably well if tree is "pumped up and primed" for the chop back. Meaning timing the major prune backs to periods of active growth yields better response. Because of this, you can use the generalized techniques for building a deciduous bonsai. Under this plan, none of the branches currently on the trunk will be there on the finished tree. Starting from the nebari, as each segment of trunk reaches the desired thickness, all the branches thicker than 50% of the trunk diameter are cut off. Usually you develop more than one segment at a time but decisions are made for each segment of trunk.

End result, none of current branches will be part of the finished tree.

So prune to develop maximum leaf surface area. Branches should branch while inside the maximum bright zone of your light garden. You want as many leaves as possible in bright light. So cut to get branches to ramify several times before they extended out of the light. Do this until the trunk is as fat as desired.

I think this tactic will give good results, there are other ways, but I think this will save time to a show worthy tree.

 

[Omar]

Hello Omar,
BRT will trunk up in a pot. The greater the surface area of foliage, the quicker it will happen.

Something to keep in mind, as a general guideline, branches should be less than 50% the diameter of the trunk or sub -trunk that the branch comes off of. This yields a more tree like appearance, rather than shrub in a tub appearance. Exceptions exist, but as a loose guide this is worth keeping as a goal.

BRT bud back reasonably well if tree is "pumped up and primed" for the chop back. Meaning timing the major prune backs to periods of active growth yields better response. Because of this, you can use the generalized techniques for building a deciduous bonsai. Under this plan, none of the branches currently on the trunk will be there on the finished tree. Starting from the nebari, as each segment of trunk reaches the desired thickness, all the branches thicker than 50% of the trunk diameter are cut off. Usually you develop more than one segment at a time but decisions are made for each segment of trunk.

End result, none of current branches will be part of the finished tree.

So prune to develop maximum leaf surface area. Branches should branch while inside the maximum bright zone of your light garden. You want as many leaves as possible in bright light. So cut to get branches to ramify several times before they extended out of the light. Do this until the trunk is as fat as desired.

I think this tactic will give good results, there are other ways, but I think this will save time to a show worthy tree.

Thank you Leo this is given me much to think about about. It's strange to think none of the current branches will end up in the final design.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Yes, it took me many years of poor results for me to finally accept what seasoned pros had been telling me.