Diatomaceous Gravel Source?

Gary McCarthy

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Optisorb have particles as large as 1/4"? I thought they where comparable to 8822 which is nowhere near 1/4".

I may need to get some Optisorb to add to the mix if that's the case since getting larger size DE is difficult at the moment.
Optisorb was a little bigger particle size than the Napa 8822 but I wouldn't call it 1/4" size.

For what it's worth, I have a number of deciduous trees, mostly tridents, in 100% DE. Some are 100% Diatomite Rock and some are a combo of the Napa 8822 and Optisorb. They are all doing well.
 

PABonsai

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So optisorb is larger than 8822?. Fastenal sells it for $12 a bag, so it's only marginally more than 8822. Though they sell by weight and napa by volume, so I don't know how it compares lb for lb. wish I knew that before! Dang.
 

Gary McCarthy

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So optisorb is larger than 8822?. Fastenal sells it for $12 a bag, so it's only marginally more than 8822. Though they sell by weight and napa by volume, so I don't know how it compares lb for lb. wish I knew that before! Dang.
Optisorb does have some larger particle sizes than the Napa 8822. But they are still pretty close overall.
 

_#1_

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Fastenal sells it for $12 a bag, so it's only marginally more than 8822.
Autozone sells Optisorb as well but I didnt ask the price. Should have asked though when i was there today.
 

AZbonsai

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Folks, we simply can not speak of soil success or failure without also speaking of watering frequency and duration.

Sorce
I was just jumping on to say that! I have a very heavy hand for watering. Mostly due to climate but I enjoy watering as well. Straight DE of this size takes a ton of watering. So if your goal is to cut back on watering this size DE alone is not the way to go IMO. My main goal of trying this large particle size is to hopefully get more air flow through the roots. The larger particle size allows for that I believe. I had some really good results with a flood and drain hydroponic set up when I used hydroton (clay balls) and I thought the larger DE may replicate that for bonsai. This size DE also helps lighten the impact my heavy watering hand has on my trees.
 
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sparklemotion

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Optisorb have particles as large as 1/4"? I thought they where comparable to 8822 which is nowhere near 1/4".

I may need to get some Optisorb to add to the mix if that's the case since getting larger size DE is difficult at the moment.
1/4 and 1/8 are the sizes of the sifters that I use for "medium" sized particles. TBH, I usually skip the big sifter for Optisorb because there aren't enough pieces that are larger than 1/4" to matter.

I've never bought NAPA 8822,but from what I understand Optisorb is a little larger.
 

milehigh_7

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Optisorb have particles as large as 1/4"? I thought they where comparable to 8822 which is nowhere near 1/4".

I may need to get some Optisorb to add to the mix if that's the case since getting larger size DE is difficult at the moment.
Optisorb is non-calcined and will turn to mush in one season. Also non-calcined is less porous (info I learned reading patent applications) so it's not as well suited for our needs.
 
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PABonsai

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Optisorb is non-calcined and will turn to mush in one season. Also non-calcined is less porous (info I learned reading patent applications) so it's not as well suited for our needs.
Thanks for that tidbit. I was not aware of that. So Napa 8822 is though?
 

M. Frary

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Particle size is way overrated.
I dont even sift the Napa D.E.
Every tree I have is in that mixed with lava.
The lava is much larger also.
Also I know of at least one person who uses sand in his mix.
He has wicked trees too.
Folks, we simply can not speak of soil success or failure without also speaking of watering frequency and duration.

Sorce

This is the key to using any soil or substrate.^^^^^^^^^^
Watering!
My mix takes out all guesswork.
I only water once per day.
I adjust dry out time by the amount of lava I add.
For example.
Tamaracks are swamp creatures.
They get almost pure D E.
Jack pines on the other hand are from dry areas.
They get more lava.
I do have an Amur maple that's in kakadama.
I bought it that way and will be getting it out of that crap and into my mix in the spring. Freaks me out. But it's a water sucking beast.
Why anyone would put a pine in that stuff is beyond me.
Once in my mix(which doesn't break down) the need for anything like half bare rooting is nullified. Why do that operation more than once in a trees life? It's akin to collecting a tree from the wild.
With what I use once a tree is in it only the edges of the rootball will need trimmed. No half bare rooting to get old broken down mushy akadama out.
Less stress on the tree,less wait time to completely repot. One year versus 2. Plus no stress on the core roots. They didn't get touched because the soil in there is still good. Not some broken down clay crap that akadama eventually turns into.
 

AZbonsai

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@milehigh_7 Short window Clyde. Real reppotting starting Feb.
 

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Arlithrien

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The best I have settled for is Floor-dry on Amazon. Costs $18 for a 25lb bag which if my math is correct is equal to 10 gallons of American Bonsai NatraAgg Mini #20 (they charge $90 for that much lol). Pic related is sifted and wet, but after the first 2 pots I got lazy and stopped sifting.
 

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The best I have settled for is Floor-dry on Amazon. Costs $18 for a 25lb bag which if my math is correct is equal to 10 gallons of American Bonsai NatraAgg Mini #20 (they charge $90 for that much lol). Pic related is sifted and wet, but after the first 2 pots I got lazy and stopped sifting.

Confirming: you believe the 25lb bag of floor-dry is approximately 10 gallons?

It doesn't list volume, only weight.
 

Arlithrien

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Confirming: you believe the 25lb bag of floor-dry is approximately 10 gallons?

It doesn't list volume, only weight.
It lists product dimensions in inches, using cubic inches you can convert it to gallons. The product dimensions may not be accurate though since it's Amazon I'm using for reference.
 
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It lists product dimensions in inches, using cubic inches you can convert it to gallons. The product dimensions may not be accurate though since it's Amazon I'm using for reference.

Ya...that, and the bag isn’t filled to the seams, but I’m sponging what you’re spilling (pun intended). I’ll give it a try. Thanks for sharing.
 
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The best I have settled for is Floor-dry on Amazon. Costs $18 for a 25lb bag which if my math is correct is equal to 10 gallons of American Bonsai NatraAgg Mini #20 (they charge $90 for that much lol). Pic related is sifted and wet, but after the first 2 pots I got lazy and stopped sifting.

I received my bag of amazon floor-dry. My first impressions are:

1. It’s basically identical to Napa 8822 in terms of particle size and consistency.
2. I’m guessing it’s about 8 gallons (I don’t have a full bag of 8822, but they’re very close in total quantity).
3. It’s more expensive than 8822.

Conclusion: stick with 8822 over floor-dry from Amazon.
 

Arlithrien

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I received my bag of amazon floor-dry. My first impressions are:

1. It’s basically identical to Napa 8822 in terms of particle size and consistency.
2. I’m guessing it’s about 8 gallons (I don’t have a full bag of 8822, but they’re very close in total quantity).
3. It’s more expensive than 8822.

Conclusion: stick with 8822 over floor-dry from Amazon.
Do you know which places carry Napa 8822? Haven't been able to find it in Florida.
 
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