Did I go over over the top from winterizing.

GrimLore

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I'm also leaving out my winged Elm from VA.

If anyone wants to make bets!

My Winged Elm came from AL in April. No intention of bringing it in or even moving it :cool: Have had a few decent frosts, pot is on the ground frozen and it is just starting to slowly show Fall color. Elm tough!

Grimmy
 
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Screw it there is garden beds all around this joint so tonight I'm digging a hole and throwing the rhodie in... done deal.. lololol but should I still keep it in its pot? Haha fml
 

sorce

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My Winged Elm came from AL in April. No intention of bringing it in or even moving it :cool: Have had a few decent frosts, pot is on the ground frozen and it is just starting to slowly show Fall color. Elm tough!

Grimmy

Mine near exactly the same, cept for its on my foot kicker on the bench.

Sorce
 

Cadillactaste

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Mine was kicking it so we'll see what winter does.

I'm also leaving out my winged Elm from VA.

If anyone wants to make bets!

Sorce
Ohhhh your winged elm...I heard they don't like to go below 20 didn't someone mention here? Mine is in the greenhouse already. With hitting the teens already at night. Living at the lake...it is ten degrees colder...so temps in the 30's they stay tucked away...anything lower than what I set my temperature for the greenhouse at...I don't do any dance with them. Watching to see if we warm up enough to bring them back out at all...but...as of now. Not yet.
 

rockm

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I tested temperatures on my porch (just moved in recently) during this cold event. The porch is an open air screen porch that is in-set and the outer wall is screen. It easily stays 5-7 degrees warmer than under open sky since the space is mostly contained in a very well heated building, despite it being open air. Water outside was freezing by 7:00pm the night before, but a small bowl of water I put out on the porch didn't even get a glaze of ice by morning despite lows well into the teens. This difference between the porch and outside may be less midwinter. Point being, open air porches on/in heated buildings can stay quite a bit warmer than outside under open sky.

As far as a large tub of mulch on the floor of the porch, in zones 7-8, this might be a good way to moderate temperature fluctuations as well as minimize root exposure to temperatures below 25F. Rockm, how many days per year would you say you have on average with calendar days highs below 32F? 3-4?

My point is, as far as zone 7-8 is concerned and considering porches/balconies tend to be slightly warmer than ambient, a large tub of mulch may actually be enough protection during a normal winter. Maybe not though, will take some trial and error.

My mulch tubs outside at the house are going to go flat on the ground near a building to take advantage of heat from the ground. I plan to take temperature measurements and I will post my results here.

Um, no, 3-4 days with highs below 32 would be a very unusual winter. We get sub zero nights and stings of days in the 20's all through late January into Feb. The point is, this tub filled with mulch is inadequate because those cold temps surround the plant on all sides. It offers no protection at all.
 

GrimLore

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Ohhhh your winged elm...I heard they don't like to go below 20 didn't someone mention here?

Tough call. Depends on the tree health, source, and other things. Info varies on them a bit, some say zone 5, some say 6. Myself if healthy and established I see no reason they could not do ok in 5, on the ground.

Grimmy
 

Cadillactaste

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Tough call. Depends on the tree health, source, and other things. Info varies on them a bit, some say zone 5, some say 6. Myself if healthy and established I see no reason they could not do ok in 5, on the ground.

Grimmy

But...he seems to be...leaving them on his monkey poles and such...Right @sorce ?
 

rockm

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Um, no, 3-4 days with highs below 32 would be a very unusual winter. We get sub zero nights and stings of days in the 20's all through late January into Feb. The point is, this tub filled with mulch is inadequate because those cold temps surround the plant on all sides. It offers no protection at all.
I should have added that if you're using this box on a porch or other area, you might just as well skip it. It's not going to do anything. You can't conserve heat that isn't there...
 

rockm

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Tough call. Depends on the tree health, source, and other things. Info varies on them a bit, some say zone 5, some say 6. Myself if healthy and established I see no reason they could not do ok in 5, on the ground.

Grimmy
I've found this is risky thinking with southern-collected trees in more northern areas.

I have found with several species, including hackberry, elms and oaks collected in La. and Texas, that just because the species is listed at a certain hardiness zone in books doesn't make it so in real life.

I have a hackberry collected in Texas. The species is listed as hardy to zone 5 in the books. I've got it planted in the ground to develop. Every winter for the last six years, winter cold kills off the branching and twigging I've worked to build up on it.

This has happened with more than one hackberry collected in more Southerly locations. Had an excellent rammed up shohin hackberry bonsai I bought from Guy Guidry a few years back. After a cold winter buried deep in the cold pit in the backyard, I found ALL of its secondary branching had been killed off. This happened repeatedly. All I have of it now is the pretty nice Japanese shohin pot it came in.

Had the same thing happen with an American elm collected in La. after I assumed it didn't need all that much shelter because it's a local native species and doesn't seem to be affected by cold winters. Nope...
 

GrimLore

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I've found this is risky thinking with southern-collected trees in more northern areas.

Actually I agree and see it holding especially true for younger small trees. Here I have a 6 foot potted Winged Elm, 3 foot Lacebark Elm, and a 5 foot Chinese Elm that all came from different Southern locations that were far smaller last April upon receipt - They are staying where they have been grown having roots holding the pots in the ground, well established.

I have a 2 foot Hackberry and 2 1 foot Chinese Elms from Nevada that have been and will stay in the shed for the Winter. Funny part is the large ones are just starting to show Fall color and the smaller sheltered plants have changed color and dropped most foliage already... The reason here why the larger will stay out ;) I must admit it takes loosing a few and closely following some plants here to gauge it properly over a few years.

More so I find it far more difficult when dealing with some shrubs and flora to figure out but it can be done. For example I have Crepe Myrtle and Rhododendron that Winter just fine outdoors on the ground potted and others. They don't suffer branch loose or related problems. Some were protected for a year but do fine for the following years.

I absolutely agree though that the source of the plant coupled with the time of acquiring it is a very important consideration that we all should work with for success.

Grimmy
 

miker

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Okay, so I waited too long this year to buy all the fine pine bark mulch for my winter storage and now the big box stores are sold out. They still have the "red, black and brown" mulch but I understand these have chemical additives and are not recommended for contact with bonsai. The Lowes near me had two bags of shredded hardwood mulch left, so I bought those but that is all I have and I need WAY more than that.

Does anybody know of the kind of places one could still get pine bark mulch this time of year?

If I can't find any I may just have to set all of my pots together flat on the ground near the house and hope for the best. It will suck having to fuss over watering and daily freeze and thaw cycles.
 

Stormwater

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Still trying to wrap my head around winterizing a cascade where the plant drops below the bottom of the pot. Worried about the foliage touching the ground (juniper, nana?).
 

miker

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Still trying to wrap my head around winterizing a cascade where the plant drops below the bottom of the pot. Worried about the foliage touching the ground (juniper, nana?).

In my experience, Juniperus Procumbens Nana is very cold hardy. My small one in a 6" pot sat exposed on a bench all of last winter and we dipped below zero and had many days with highs in the teens. It didn't miss a beat.
 

Paul2229

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pffft forget all that 'wintering' nonsense, just move to Australia and you'll never have to deal with winter again. Its winter here at the moment and today we should hit around 70f in the middle of the day, it is sensational :)
 

coh

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pffft forget all that 'wintering' nonsense, just move to Australia and you'll never have to deal with winter again. Its winter here at the moment and today we should hit around 70f in the middle of the day, it is sensational :)
That is sounding better and better every year!
 
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