Did I kill it? (spruce)

[karen82]

I repotted my blue spruce this spring (mid-April), it needed to be out of the nursery soil it was in. I raked through it to uncover the nebari which was a good 4-5" down and while I didn't prune many roots at all, I did rake out quite a bit of soil and tore some roots in the process. I did not bareroot it, and didn't remove any soil from the middle of the root ball. Basically I raked out the top portion rather aggressively to uncover the nebari, then raked out loose soil from the rest of the rootball.
I placed it in a partially shaded location and didn't touch it for a month except to water. Last week, I moved it to a sunnier spot.
But, it isn't doing anything. The new buds aren't extending - they look the same. I suspect they are dried up and dead, though I haven't cut one open to see.
Does this mean it's dead, or is it just weak and has a chance to recover?
I know I was a bit aggressive repotting, but it seemed healthy last fall, and hasn't had any pruning done since fall 2017 when I got it - no wiring yet either.

Last fall:




Repotting:



Current foliage - no new growth

 

[0soyoung]

Where was it all winter?
Spruce have a bud chilling requirement. Not getting enough cold hours causes exactly this behavior. Eventually the spring/summer heat will maybe force the buds to break later, much later than normal. It is a possibility.

 

[karen82]

It had plenty of cold hours - basically from Nov thru early April. It was set in the ground on the north side of the house, the area fenced in with burlap and filled with snow once we got some. When I repotted it in April, I think the last of the snow had only just melted. I had some amur and trident maples, siberian elms, and quince with it, and they made it through ok. Plants are slow to get growing here, though. The trident isn't fully leafed out; even the landscape crabapple is just beginning to bud. Is it too early to expect the spruce to be growing? I'm sure it was growing this time last spring, but I did move last summer, so that could've thrown it off a little.

Also, we've been having an usually cold spring. Nighttime lows just barely above 45 now.

 

[Saddler]

It doesn’t look dead yet. Just give it sun, water and fertilizer and hope it grows some new buds for next year. When I repot my spruce I have been using Walter Palls advice and only cutting the roots I have to to fit it in the pot. He said he sometimes leaves the roots something like up to 20 years before trimming. Next time. On a spruce I collected a couple years ago only a couple buds opened the next (one year ago) spring and now it has many dozens. Keep it alive and it might spring back. It’s hard to tell with the last pic only showing one branch but there might be buds just slow to open.

 

[karen82]

Thanks, I hope it's alive.
I did find a photo I took of it almost exactly a year ago and it had plenty of new growth on it already. I moved late last summer, so I'm farther north - same hardiness zone, but cooler spring weather. Could it just be the cooler weather slowing it down. BTW I only showed one branch because it's all like that.
Here's another current photo of it, though it doesn't show a lot of the foliage. I know it's just an ugly nursery tree lol, but I still want to keep it alive.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

If it's not dropping needles, then it isn't dead.
The 2018 christmas trees I find lying around in back yards are about dead or dying now. Blue spruce can take a while for it to show, sometimes the needles dry up and don't lose color at all.

This one looks alive though. My non-blue spruces are late this year too after some rootwork.
I see that since the repot (closed dormant buds) there has been some growth. If the buds feel soft and not crispy, I think it'll do just fine after some recovery time.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Yep, until the tree is crispy, it is not dead.

I have a 25 year old or older nursery colorado blue spruce. It was horribly pot bound in a nursery container, had not been repotted in a decade when I got it. I removed maybe 70% of the roots getting it into an Anderson flat. A tray only 5 inches deep and about 16 x 16 x 5 inches. Holds about 3 (nursery trade) gallons of potting mix. The first year, no growth, no death, it just sat there. Second year weak growth, but a moderate number of buds set for the next year. Year 3, nice vigorous growth, and boatloads of buds set for the next year. So last summer it was 4 years post root work, that was the summer I went wild, wired, bent, pruned and otherwise worked the hell out of it. I let the number of buds tell me whether the tree was ready for work.

Spruce, often are best left alone for several years, then radical work, then left alone until they show full recovery. Once your framework is set, there is a regular mid summer pruning and an autumn branch selection and wiring. But until you get to refinement, the above, work it, then forget it, is the pattern.

 

[karen82]

Thanks for the encouragement - I think it is still alive but just greatly weakened. I cut one bud open, and it was still green inside, not dried up.
But, it looks pretty pathetic compared to the landscape spruce (not sure of species).



I had been hoping to cut some branches back this fall but I guess I might have to wait a year.

 

[Saddler]

It looks like the buds are swelling. I would definitely wait until the tree is vigorous before cutting anything off.

 

[karen82]

An update - the buds are just beginning to open finally. It's over a month behind when it started growing last year, but at least it's alive and finally doing something.
Maybe next year I can finally try doing some actual bonsai work on it.
As much as I do want to keep it alive and work on it, I won't ever try another spruce again. I'm pretty patient but not really patient enough for spruce.

 

[Saddler]

Waiting an extra month requires too much patience? I can only think in year increments now when it comes to bonsai.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Go out and buy yourself trees. If you are itching to do bonsai, and none of your trees are ready, you need more trees. You have the right number of trees when you are always behind on bonsai projects. Key to patience is to have enough other trees to keep you busy. I need about 10 intermediate level trees, 3 more advanced trees and a hundred sticks in pots to keep from overdoing any one tree.

 

[Tycoss]

I have a number of spruce and yes, they often “pout” for awhile after repotting or collecting. I have five new collected spruce this year whose buds are just now opening. My established trees have been out since the middle of April. Those other guys are right, any branch that is still flexible is not totally dead, and I’ve had trees wait a whole year to set new buds. Don’t give up on spruce though, they are an awesome genus when you work at their pace.

 

[Saddler]

they are an awesome genus when you work at their pace.

That is about half of bonsai right there. Keeping it alive and healthy and know what the pace of the tree is.

 

[karen82]

Waiting an extra month requires too much patience? I can only think in year increments now when it comes to bonsai.

I don't mind it being set back a month or two from repotting. It's more the amount of recovery time they need, and the fact they can't have more than 50% of foliage removed at I time. When I got it, I removed 50% of foliage (it was very bushy), gave it a year to recover, then repotted, now it will need a few more years to recover before I can do work on it. I haven't been able to do any real pruning or wiring on it and won't be able to for a few more years it looks like.. during which time the branches will get even longer and more overgrown.
It seems like most trees, even other conifers, don't need quite as much recovery time as spruce.

I do have other trees - sort of. Some crabs, maples, elms, quince but most of those are basically just sticks in the ground right now. Maybe in a few years.

 

[0soyoung]

I prefer to repot conifers and quince after the summer solstice, around Aug.