Did something stupid

[Katie0317]

I should have known better. In late February here in Florida all my trees were looking great and my one trident maple was covered with buds. It's my favorite tree because they're hard to grow here because of the summer heat. I wanted to encourage it and decided to feed my trees with fish emulsion.

It worked and it seemed that it caused everything to 'fast forward' in growth!

I got an email from D&L nursery where I buy and take classes. I haven't been able to get there in a while but the email said...

Do not feed your deciduous trees until the leaves have hardened off; that means not
until all of the leaves are out and branch tips are starting to grow. If you feed them too early you will get a big flush of growth which translates to long internodes and larger leaves. You could literally waste a season getting them back. If any of your deciduous trees were root-pruned over winter, thus removing a lot of the stored nutrients in their roots, you can fertilize those earlier, just after leaf flush.

Well I guess that means I wasted a season because the buds seemed to open overnight and it was covered with leaves quickly. I thought, 'Wow'. Sometimes I learn better when I make a mistake then I do by just reading. I was kind of mad at myself for a while but am moving forward now. Not sure what's happening with your deciduous trees right now up north but hopefully this will help a few others who will learn from my mistake. So don't be in a hurry to fertilize!

 

[BrightsideB]

I learn that way too! I’ve made a lot of mistakes once even though I should have listens more to instinct or common sense lol

 

[sorce]

For me, an all fish fert regimen led to wonderfully tight and super healthy growth.

No worries.

Hit em with that chemical BS and that may be true.

Sorce

 

[Paradox]

Live and learn.

Feel better with the knowledge that you didn't do anything that will hurt your trees. A year delay isn't terrible honestly.

 

[ShadyStump]

Sometimes I learn better when I make a mistake then I do by just reading.

You mean there are other ways to learn?!

 

[nuttiest]

is fish low in nitrogen?

 

[Potawatomi13]

No big deal! Infinitely better than dead tree.

 

[Shibui]

In my book it depends on the stage of development. If I'm aiming for growth and thickening then excess growth is a great thing and I fertilize accordingly.
During ramification development long internodes are a pain but many of my maples produce long internodes with the first flush despite anything I do so I've got over worrying about that. Simply cut back all too long internodes and try again. Some years I've had to start again 2 or 3 times before growth has settled down enough to give the short internodes I'm looking for - especially when developing smaller bonsai.
Everyone has their own way to do things but I think the email you received may be just exaggerating a little to say you'll lose a whole season. I'll leave the root pruning comment - for now.
As @Potawatomi13 says above - no big deal

 

[penumbra]

Fish emulsion is not likely to cause a burst of new growth, it is more likely the weather has. It will cause a more sustained and steady growth, but not a burst of growth.

 

[Katie0317]

I use an Alaskan fish emulsion and everything exploded with leaves. We're in the perfect sweet spot right now in terms of weather. In the summer we put up a triangular sun shade that looks like it's part of the pool design but it shades the trees. The temps are mild right now but we sail through the winter with our French doors open put pay for it with hellish hot summers.

I have a lot of pictures from when I bought it about a year ago...I'm guessing it's about 10 years old and is a sweet little shohin tree.

I can compare pictures of today with what it looked like a year ago.

 

[HorseloverFat]

I have not noticed this with fish...my plants start getting weekly fish when the leaves appear.

I even get the reject experimental recipes from the DRAMM plant... Like 6-23-9 and weird'ns like that.

 

[Kanorin]

The good news is that one could get 4, 5, maybe even 6 flushes of growth out of a trident maple in your climate (let the leaves harden off, then cut back to an acceptable internode spacing, wait for the next flush to harden off and repeat). So if this first flush comes out way too coarse, you've only set yourself back like 6 weeks....not an entire year.

 

[bwaynef]

Generally, first internodes on Tridents are the smallest. First internode on a Japanese maple is HUGE. You're probably going to cut back to the first or 2nd internode on that trident anyway.

 

[dbonsaiw]

Learning by mistake is the way. In any event, I can't imagine you ruined a growing season from some fish fert. And Shibui's comment really resonates. I sometimes get lost in the branches and forget I am building a trunk, so the internodes don't really matter for the vast majority of my trees at this point.

 

[Katie0317]

It seemed like the leaves were smaller last year though they're not huge either. If I cut it back now, shouldn't the next flush of leaves be smaller, and so on? When and how can I start to see smaller leaves and what more can I do to encourage that?

 

[Shibui]

Small leaves seems to be the result of more branching. The more small branches your tree has the smaller the leaves will be. More branching is a direct result of trimming. It builds up slowly at first so the first few years you'll feel you are getting nowhere but ramification is exponential so after a few years you'll see a big difference.

 

[Katie0317]

Shibui, That seems so simple yet I did not know that! Thank you for sharing. That must be true of all deciduous trees? Meaning trimming is what increases ramification and also decreases leaf size? I'd been taught in a round about way about ramification but nothing about leaf size but probably because I didn't ask the right question.

I was out looking at it yesterday evening and all but a few buds opened. Again, another question that I feel I should know but with your experience you can answer it best. I've never felt I needed to ask this on my tropicals but how much should I be trimming on the maple at a time? Just keep it shaped? Are there reasons to cut deeper than that?

The tropicals grow fast in our semi tropical weather so the answer to that question seems fairly obvious. Also, I'm constantly cutting back the large leaves on one tree and that's the water jasmine. They'll reduce in one season and it's fun to watch. After I first got it I took a class with David Cutchin and told him I'd like it to be a shohin sized tree. He had a knife and cut it way, way back. I shared the long stalks with class mates and saved one myself. Couldn't stand having to bother with watering one stalk so my husband planted it in dirt last October. It did really well and is almost as thick as the mother tree already, which is a good bit bigger around than my thumb. It's a favorite tree for people who enjoy tropicals! @Carol 83, know you do. Next time you buy from Wigerts, you may want to order one. They have some really nice pre-bonsai ones right now for 25.00. Just the time it takes to get them the size they're selling is well worth the $.

Thank you for the explanation Suibui.

 

[Apex37]

In the summer we put up a triangular sun shade that looks like it's part of the pool design but it shades the trees.

Could you link what shade cloth you use? I’ve been looking for a triangle shaped one forever for my main bench and can’t ever seem to find one that isn’t a shade sail (which block too much light).

 

[JudyB]

It is leaf surface area that determines size of leaf. The tree needs a certain amount of leaf surface, if there are fewer leaves they will be larger, the more leaves the smaller they will be. That is why more ramification helps, as more twigs mean more leaves. You can trim back and/or defoliate tridents in your climate several times if the tree is in good health. Not all trees can handle multiple defoliations, but tridents can.

 

[JudyB]

If any of your deciduous trees were root-pruned over winter, thus removing a lot of the stored nutrients in their roots, you can fertilize those earlier, just after leaf flush.

I'll leave the root pruning comment - for now.

hmmm. Sounds like one of the heresy statements to me....