[Dingus] Dawn Redwood (shohin) #1

[LittleDingus]

Many of the veterans will find this progression ridiculous...that's fine. It kind of is But I'm also bored and am in the habit of starting much of my "from seed" in the fall anyway so I'm going for it!

The last time I started a batch of metasequoia glyptostroboides seed was 2 years ago...almost to the day! I've got a couple of that crop in a forest planting but a late summer watering (or lack of watering) mishap may have killed them Or at least some of them. There are signs of life...but also signs of dormancy and possible death. I'll know for sure in the spring!

But, given that mishap, I wanted to start another forest planting from seed this year just in case. This time, however, I'm hoping to keep them shohin sized! At least for a little while...

Seed were sown on 10/24/2020 in a pot I bought from @sorce specifically for this project. I don't know for sure how many seed were planted. I just took a pinch out of the lot I got from Sheffield's and sprinkled them around and covered them up slightly. No pre-treatment. I'd guess maybe less than a dozen seed were sown. As of today, I can see 5 little trees already



3 of them are upright and pretty obvious. 2 more are just breaking the surface. My finished goal was 5 trees in this tiny pot. I'm hoping to see a few more sprout for spares/possible selective reduction down the road.

I have no idea how long I can keep them alive in this tiny pot. If I need to restart a batch every other year or so and move the previous batch up to something bigger, I'm ok with that.

Other pertinent details:

Soil: Napa 8822 with a dusting of miracle grow to cover the seeds and help keep them moist through germination. Soil is also covered with a clear drip tray to help hold humidity through germination.
Light: A south east facing window that receives full sun for several hours a day supplemented with LED grow lights.

Laugh if you want...we can all use a good chuckle sometimes! I plan to update this thread around the 1st of the month for the first year...assuming they live that long

 

[HorseloverFat]

Neat plan. Can’t wait!

Take meticulous notes, just to piss off the “nay-sayers” even MORE!

 

[Kanorin]

I like it.

Cherish these days...they grow up so fast!

 

[LittleDingus]

Age 1 month...

I lost one of the initial 5 seedlings to damp off and there's a second one I'm going to lose it just doesn't know it's dead yet



You can see on the seedling in the middle where the tissue just under the seed cap is dead. There's no live meristem to grow leaves now. I should pluck it but I'm curious how long it will continue to stand!

You can see in that picture a well placed replacement! That second seedling was a late germinator...very convenient!

The seedling I lost to damp off was off all on it's own. I had dropped 3 fresh seeds in that area hoping one would germinate and fill in. One did!

So, I'm still at 5 viable seedlings in an arrangement I'm happy with.



They are under LED lights for 14 hours a day but in a south east facing window that gets full sun a couple of hours a day.



I no longer keep a humidity dome over these guys.

 

[LittleDingus]

Age 2 months...

I've been working from home since March...my wife works in health care, but has been wearing an N95 100% of the time while out of the house since Thanksgiving. My son and his family have been similarly quaranteened. We took the risk to visit the grandkids for a few days for Christmas The downside...I have several sets of tender seedlings that can't go that long without water yet One of those sets was this planting.

We had a family friend come over to take care of the cat. I had her water some of the tender plants as well. To make it easier for her I top dressed this planting with Miracle grow so it would hold a little more moisture and had her water every other day. They look to have survived well!



One of them has a branch!!! They do grow up so fast

My secondary reason for top dressing was to prep for planting moss. A couple of weeks ago I gathered several different kinds of moss while I was out walking in the woods. I've been keeping it in the house in a bright...but not too bright...spot near a window under a seed starter humidity dome. Today, I planted some of it in this planting



These guys should be starting to grow like mad in the next few months...provided I can keep them watered! We've now passed the shortest day of the year. From here on, the house will be dry from the furnace running more frequently (January is typically our coldest month) and the sun will start the slow climb to dumping more and more heat through my window onto these guys. I'm hoping that by planting moss, it will help limit evaporation so I can continue to only have to water once per day. We'll see...

I've never intentionally planted moss before. We'll see if this was a mistake! On the plus side, if it chokes out my young trees, maybe I can start over and this time be within the entry times for the "from seed forest" contest

 

[PA_Penjing]

sometimes it's the silly little low stress projects that are the most fun for me. These things grow 3 - 5 feet a year for me (in the ground) once established, so there will always be somehting new to look at. even in a shallow dish

 

[LittleDingus]

sometimes it's the silly little low stress projects that are the most fun for me. These things grow 3 - 5 feet a year for me (in the ground) once established, so there will always be somehting new to look at. even in a shallow dish

I usually get about 18"-24" in the first year in 1 gallon grow bags. We'll see what happens with 5 in a shallow dish My goal is keep them all alive for 1 year...then we'll see.

 

[LittleDingus]

Age 3 months...

They are really starting to take off now...they are almost in need of a trim And they have branches!



The moss is doing its job and holding moisture in. I don't feel the need to worry if I miss a watering now. That may change in the coming months. We're now past our historic coldest month and they're starting to get gradually increasing direct sun each day as the days lengthen and the sun climbs higher up the sky.

At some point, I would expect them to stall out growth wise being clumped so close in about a cup of soil...maybe a cup and a half?!? I'm hoping for somewhere around 8" height for the finished forest. So far it's looking like that won't be a problem. I intend to let them get as tall as they can this first year regardless. I'm curious

 

[HorseloverFat]

Looking good!!

 

[Wulfskaar]

I planted a bunch several weeks ago and one came up after a week. Another one is deciding to pop up now. I hope to have the success that you are having so far!

 

[LittleDingus]

I planted a bunch several weeks ago and one came up after a week. Another one is deciding to pop up now. I hope to have the success that you are having so far!

How are yours doing now? Did you get more than the two? Are the two still doing ok?

Common little guys...I'm pullin for ya!

 

[LittleDingus]

Age 4 months...

They're starting to get shaggy looking!



One thing I've seen happen frequently with redwoods under these lights is the leader aborts for some reason. Here's the apex of one of the trees. All the shorter ones have done this



The leader should have continued on from the center of those two buds, but it aborted. The buds that normally would have formed anyway get quite large but never break. 4 of the 5 trees in this planting have done that These lights are red/blue LED. I think maybe next winter I'll look into replacing them with something more full balanced. These trees are in a bright south east window so they do get a decent amount of full spectrum, but I'm wondering if the blue intensity is just too high for delicate new growth??

Because of this, however, the trees are starting to branch out wider than they are tall. So time to get some wire out and wire up new leaders!



It looks more like I'm wiring tomatoes in the garden, but it works My fumble fingers are too fat to work on such delicate branches without risk of breaking them. A simply curl or two and I was able to turn some of the higher branches into upward pointing leaders instead.

That still left me with some larger branches to deal with though. You can see where some of the branches are large enough they are forming buds already!



I cut off about half this branch snipping it back to an existing bud.



Maybe I should have cut back a few more buds even?!?

I snipped some branches out of the center to open it up for more light. I also cut back a number of branches that were starting to reach way out. I find snipping addictive...once I start, I find more that needs to be snipped....then more...then more. The result is I always end up with a larger pile of clippings than I intended.



I did find this one branch interesting:



I thought about wiring it to pull it a little closer to the main trunk to make a twin trunk. That would give me 6 trunks though...an even number. I have plans for one of the trees in the future that may "fix" that, but I don't know. For now, I just left it. Since it curves up, it's not reaching as far out as some of the branches I trimmed were. It's also a bit to the back. We'll see where it's at next month

And here it is after the cleanup:



Now that the sun is climbing and the tree is getting more direct light and warmth, the moss has all died It's still working as a decent mulch layer so I've left it for now. On one of my recent walks, I found a source of what I hope will be a better moss. It's growing in an area that is more exposed and gets a lot more sun so I'm hoping it might work out better. I'll try and collect some on a future walk and maybe replace this moss.

 

[Wulfskaar]

How are yours doing now? Did you get more than the two? Are the two still doing ok?

Common little guys...I'm pullin for ya!

I'm afraid I have bad news. My two dawn redwoods died. I had to get them outside and probably got too much sun and too dry of air. New seeds are on the way.

 

[LittleDingus]

I'm afraid I have bad news. My two dawn redwoods died. I had to get them outside and probably got too much sun and too dry of air. New seeds are on the way.

Sorry to hear that!

I'm lucky enough to have a bright enough window that this forest will likely never go outside. I have another forest that I'm still hopeful is not dead after an accidental drought last fall. That one only ever went outside in the fall to catch some cool nights to signal it to go dormant. That's why I grow these tiny guys...so I have something to look at inside all summer.

Good luck on your next set of seed! I see that Sheffield's has them back in stock. My last dawn seeds came from somewhere else and they don't seem to be the same level of quality as Sheffield's

 

[LittleDingus]

Age 5 months...

...or just shy of!

Some things were really starting to annoy me and I had a little spare time this morning so I'm reporting a few days early.

One of the annoyances is, while the moss appears to be getting a foothold, it was in need of a trim!

Before:



After:



I could have been more aggressive with the cleanup. I'm still thinking I might need a different moss as the summer draws near. I think I have found a good candidate but I haven't been back there to collect any yet. I'm curious to rip off this moss either way and see what the roots are doing. Maybe next month...

Here's a better picture from after the groundwork but before the tree trimming.



The biggest annoyance I have is some of the branches I wired up to new apexes also stalled out. Here's one that did take. It's from the large tree in the back left.



There's a slight swell where the branch was turned up but the branch is well set into place. That large bud was the former apex bud. It's hard to tell in the picture, but it has a more blue than green shade to it. My experience with Dawns is when the buds turn that shade, they are pretty much done and won't break. Sometimes new buds will form at their base instead. I'm leaving this one...and the others...for now, but I'm guessing they will all get rubbed off in the next month or two to make way for potential new buds.

Many of the rest stopped growing upwards. You can see that all the trees on the right are stunted compared to the two on the left

The days are getting long enough now that I'm going to move this planting out from under the lights and into a large window that gets direct sun from dawn until about noon. I have a bigger redwood forest that's grown indoors just fine in that window for a couple years now so the spot is proven. Hopefully getting them out from under the excess of blue/red light will let them grow more normally. Some plants love the blue/red LEDs, but redwoods don't seem to be one of them

After some tree trimming, my forest now looks like this:



The tall trees on the left are ~5" from soil line. I have a drastic plan for the tallest tree in the front on the left, but I need it to be another 1"-2" higher to have any hope of working as I envision. I'd like all 3 trees in the back to balance out more height wise...not exactly the same...but not as different as they are now! If the one in the front right wanted to stay stunted, that would be fine with me...it might help provide some depth to the composition

Serious enthusiasts are surely getting sick of my frequent updates by now But, overall, I'm pretty happy with where it's going so far! It's not everyday you see a redwood forest growing in less than 2 cups of soil

 

[HorseloverFat]

Looking good, Dingus! That bark is looking cute!

*Robotic voice*

“Requires... sunset. Boop!”

 

[LittleDingus]

Age 6 months...

...sigh...a bit of step back, I'm sorry to say.



I noticed last month but didn't mention it that the leaf tips were brown. It's been getting noticeably worse over the past month. It doesn't quite look like nitrogen burn to me...and I don't think I've been over fertilizing this guy...but it's a possibility. Other possibilities include: 1) that even with the moss, the soil is getting too dry at times, and, 2) let's face it, these guys have been awake for 6 months...they'd normally be getting ready for bed by now! We have had some heating issues with a furnace cutting out on us occasionally but it's late enough in the year I haven't bothered fixing it. The house has been cooler than we normally keep it at times...especially at night!

For those who will be critical and say "of course they're ready for bed you stoopid fool!", I'll take a paragraph and some picture space to point out this is not my first rodeo The last time I did something like this was 2018. Here's a pictorial synopsis:

10/21/2018


5/26/2019


08/17/2019


I almost killed that planting last fall But all trunks are now awake and the trees appear to be recovering. Those seeds were sown the same time of year as these. The second picture is from almost the exact same duration from germination as this guy is today. And this planting sat in the same window as this current planting. It's outside now only because it's recovering. Normally it lives indoors all spring into the fall. It does move outside in the fall to help put it to sleep for the winter. But the first year was exactly what I'm doing to these guys: planted in October...kept awake until the following fall. The only real difference is these guys are in a lot less soil!

..anyway...not my first rodeo ;D

The moss has settled in much better than I thought it was going to.



But, given the state of the trees, I went ahead and peeled it all off to get a looksie underneath.



It doesn't look particularly "pot bound". Lots of roots? Yes. Pot bound? I feel no need to up-pot or do a root reduction given what I see. Nor do I see any significant rot/dead root.

I didn't disturb the roots more than just pulling up the entire root mat from the pot to take a close look underneath. When I put the root ball back, I also topped off with a bit of fresh potting soil to help hold a little more moisture and to hopefully help the moss re-adhere easier. I thought about switching to a different moss that I found that seems to grow in brighter locations than I pulled this moss from. Since this moss seemed to be doing fine, I opted to keep it for now...

Temps are climbing pretty quickly here. One of the trunks has started throwing out a bit of new growth.



And I can see a couple of "good" buds that I think will bud out soon on other trunks. The trees are a bit ratty...but not really unhealthy...just not as vigorous as I'm used to. It could be they are just getting ready for another round of growth and that this old ratty foliage will be replaced soon. I did chop the tops off the worst looking tree and one other just to see how they'd react. If they die...so be it. If they don't, they are trunks I wanted to stay shorter anyway

..and here is where we sit 6 months in!

 

[Wulfskaar]

Cool! Also, I noticed you're from KC. I grew up (partially) there and I'm still a huge Chiefs and Royals fan. GO CHIEFS!!!

 

[LittleDingus]

Cool! Also, I noticed you're from KC. I grew up (partially) there and I'm still a huge Chiefs and Royals fan. GO CHIEFS!!!

Blah I grew up near Chicago. Normally, I'd shout "Da Bears" but since they're pretty bad these days with a horrid organizational structure that's not likely to turn them around any time soon...I'll instead say: "Go anyone but the Packers!"

I'm also a Sox fan...nearly same story except "Go anyone but the Indians!"

...actually, I'm not that rabid...but you need to at least pretend to be if you're from Chicaga

 

[Wulfskaar]

Blah I grew up near Chicago. Normally, I'd shout "Da Bears" but since they're pretty bad these days with a horrid organizational structure that's not likely to turn them around any time soon...I'll instead say: "Go anyone but the Packers!"

I'm also a Sox fan...nearly same story except "Go anyone but the Indians!"

...actually, I'm not that rabid...but you need to at least pretend to be if you're from Chicaga

My Mom's from Chicago! I'm all about KC sports though. Being a Chiefs fan and living in raiders/chargers country is no fun.

Anyways... I'm looking forward to see your Dawn Redwood forest progress!