[Dingus] For fun portulacartia afra progression from a single cell division

LittleDingus

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I've often claimed jade and fake jade (and many, many succulents!) can be cloned from a single cell. Since covid has me working from home these days, I decided it was time I did a little documentation to back up my statements :)

"From single cell division" is a bit of an exaggeration. I actually started with this

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They will start from a single small leaf, but if they have a bit of a stem stub, you can poke them into the dirt and they don't float around as much when you water them ;) Also, if they have a live bud or two they can start growing immediately and you don't have to wait for new buds to form. These, as well as my crussala, routinely clone themselves from broken off leaves that have fallen into the pot.

This cutting was taken off my daughter's plant on 8/26/2020. I didn't take a picture of the mother plant at the time. But here's a picture of it today:

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It hasn't changed much since August...more on that later...

I potted my cutting in a 4" nursery pot in Miracle Grow potting mix. Here is the progression thus far:

8/26/2020
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10/4/2020
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10/29/2020
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11/16/2020
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12/12/2020
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You can see from today's picture that the plant has developed quite a lean. This appears to be phototropic from the blurple LEDs that I'm using to supplement light while indoors. I've "straightened" it many times and it keeps bending back over. The curve to the bend suggests the plant is intentionally turning vs leaning due to gravity. As it leans and continues to grow, the plant is getting top heavy in the small pot though. So, I potted it up to a 5" pot and "straightened" it again :)

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I do expect it to slow down some until February or so now. The LEDs I have on it are only supplemental, more photons come from the south east exposure. We're entering the part of winter where the sky is overcast more often than not...which will cut a lot of the natural light. The temps will soon start to dip low enough outside that the cool air pouring off the window onto this guy will also slow it down some. I'll need to start cutting water back to prevent root rot as the plant slows down.

I'll try and keep this thread updated as long as I have this plant. I don't know that I'll necessarily do much with it other than grow it as a house plant. Likely by the end of next summer it will be too bit to fit back indoors and I'll gift it away. I'm not a fan of p afra. Maybe were it a corking variety I'd try and do something more with it. Mostly I just wanted to document some of my assertions about growing these guys from cuttings so that I had a thread to reference when future questions about their growth comes up :D
 

Carol 83

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That's some pretty impressive growth. They are fun to propagate because they are so easy. No tenting or misting, just shove them into the soil. I just started some Cork Bark jade cuttings last weekend. Waiting for them to show growth, before I water them.
 

LittleDingus

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I started watering right away. I keep the soil damp...but not muddy. The soil is organic...Miracle Grow. I repotted into a big box store cactus mix with this repot

Temps since planting have averaged 70F during the day...occasionally low 80F. High 60F to low 70F at night.

It gets ~7k lux for 12 hours a day under red/blue LEDs. By comparison, an overcast day is ~15k lux. It gets over 30k lux for a ~4 hours a day when its clear outside. The sun casts hard shadows but is still through glass...and is at a low angle this time of year. Full summer sun tops 110k lux here.

The parent plant is in a better exposure but no supplemental light. The parent plant is tended by my daughter whom follows the traditional "water only when bone dry" advice. She waters about 2x a month...less in winter.

I'm in the less popular "if it's growing, water it!" camp. This cutting has been watered about every other day since planting. When in miracle grow, I go by the color of the soil surface...it will begin to grey/turn dull when it starts drying out. If we have a few overcast days in a row, it might get water every 3rd day. If it's warm and sunny, I might water every day. Remember, it is in a small pot so will dry out pretty fast.

I will need to water less for a while now...we should be hitting the part of the year with more overcast days and lower temps that this plant will feel through the window it is in. I've already stopped watering my crussala for the the winter...but they are much larger and in much lower light :(

Most succulents are highly opportunistic. When the conditions are right, they flush a lot of growth! Most are evergreen so when the conditions turn "not right", they protect themselves. The slow growth to preserve water...but they still photosynthesize energy and store what they can so that when the conditions turn "right" again, they are ready!

I ran a similar, longer term experiment with saguaro cacti from seed about 20 years ago. I planted seed and kept several plants in identical conditions except that I watered most by the traditional "only when bone dry" approach and one with my "as long as it's still growing" approach. I did this for 10 years. I still have 2 of those cacti now...they just turned 20 this year! Can you tell which one got the more water?

20200729_174946.jpg

The difference was even more stark at the end of 10 years. For the past 10 years, they both get the same treatment...you can see the swelling in the barrel on the shorter one at the 10 year mark when it was rewarded with more frequent watering ;)

I've never grown p afra outdoors. I rarely put my crussala outdoors either. I am genuinely curious what this thing will do come spring and I can move it into full sun with a good supply of water!

Anyway, lots of words, but I see p afra come up time and again on this forum. I thought I'd give a go at documenting my experiences all in one thread rather than leaking bits and pieces of it out into numerous threads as people ask about how to grow it. I do understand this is all horticulture and not "bonsai"...my appologies for that. I'm unlikely to ever "bonsai" p afra unless I come across a cork barking variety some day. They just don't grow enough like trees to interest me in trying to shape them into something :(
 
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Very interesting, LittleDingus! And good growing! I have five of these left over from a $5 1-gallon pot Costco that I divided, grew over the summer, and sold ten of them for $5 apiece. Their growth in full sun was impressive! The sprouts at each internode give me a "teddy bear" impression. Speaking of phototropy, I have not noticed any stems twisting/turning but you can see the growth window-side, weak as it is.

I think I'll put some of these in my grow tent and see how they do.

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LittleDingus

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Speaking of phototropy, I have not noticed any stems twisting/turning but you can see the growth window-side, weak as it is.

I think I'll put some of these in my grow tent and see how they do.

Portalacaria and crussala will both reach to the light. My jade gets a very "windswept" look to it over the winter because I keep it in a north facing window with way too much light :( It usually takes it a couple of weeks before there's a very noticeable reach to the light.

My daughter's parent plant to this guy is reaching to the light too.

This guy seems to recoil from the LED panels :( I've had a few other plants do something similar under the red/blue only LEDs too. The blue wavelength is a primary wavelength for phototropism. Most of my trees don't seem to care, but some of my softwood house plants behave differently under the LEDs than under natural light.

...and it certainly sounds like you got your money back in spades from that purchase :D
 

LittleDingus

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I haven't updated in a while. It slowed down growth considerably January through March...pretty much as expected given how cool my window is and that I cut back on watering during that time to help prevent rot. The temps in that window have increased, the sunlight intensity and duration in that window has increased, and now it's starting to grow again :)

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In fact, I've been wanting to move it outside for a few weeks now since I don't focus as much on the few remaining plants in that window and this guy isn't getting the water it wants for really vigorous growth! I've found the pot bone dry a couple of times now...which is something I rarely let happen while they are in active growth...I know! The heresy!! Do key in on that qualifier: "active growth". I don't keep them soggy by any means...but, when outside and growing, I do water most every day...

Anyway, it's gotten top heavy enough in that 4" pot that I wanted to repot into something with a most stable base before I moved it outside. My deck gets some pretty serious winds at times and these guys snap pretty easily when tipped over :(

Obligatory root photos:

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I don't know that I've ever seen a pot bound succulent in 30 years of growing them. I'm sure it happens. This isn't pot bound by any stretch. It could happily double in size continuing to live in that pot. But, to live outdoors on my deck, it needs a more stable base...so a wider pot it is!

I also don't think of succulents as having a nebari. There are 2 thinker roots buried in there. I didn't do anything to tease them flat though. I did change up the pot I was planning to use from a typical 6" flower pot to a half height 8" nursery pot. I'll try and keep the roots somewhat shallow and see what happens.

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...and outside it goes!

Remember, here is where this specific plant started back on 8/26

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We're 8 months in and the plant is already a foot tall. And that was all out of season growth! There's just over 4 months of real sunshine and warm temps until we fill out the first year...let's see what it does with them!
 

LittleDingus

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Final update on this one as I'll probably toss it on the compost pile rather than bring it back inside come winter. I, personally, don't like the way they look as "bonsai" but people post about them as bonsai from time to time. My goal here was to show what these guys can do in a year's time with the right care :D

Once again...here is the initial "cutting" taken on 2020/08/26 as noted in the photo's timestamp.

20200826_133840.jpg

The progression over the year is above. Hopefully the updates were frequent enough people believe I wasn't playing games with swapsies!

Here it is on 2021/8/20...6 days shy of a full year.

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It'll go back outside to its spot for now. Unless I have a compelling reason though, it won't come in for the winter. I'm not a fan of p afra...I have some nice fat c ovata I like much better. Still not "bonsai" though...
 

Carol 83

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Final update on this one as I'll probably toss it on the compost pile rather than bring it back inside come winter. I, personally, don't like the way they look as "bonsai" but people post about them as bonsai from time to time. My goal here was to show what these guys can do in a year's time with the right care :D

Once again...here is the initial "cutting" taken on 2020/08/26 as noted in the photo's timestamp.

View attachment 392831

The progression over the year is above. Hopefully the updates were frequent enough people believe I wasn't playing games with swapsies!

Here it is on 2021/8/20...6 days shy of a full year.

View attachment 392832 View attachment 392833 View attachment 392834
View attachment 392835

It'll go back outside to its spot for now. Unless I have a compelling reason though, it won't come in for the winter. I'm not a fan of p afra...I have some nice fat c ovata I like much better. Still not "bonsai" though...
I'm just the opposite. P. afra is OK, I hate the fat c ovata. I had a couple in my office and decided they needed to just go away, and "poof" they are gone.
 
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personally, don't like the way they look as "bonsai"

All of mine seem to get those swollen-looking red shoots that never seem to fully "harden off," making them pretty ugly for bonsai. I have also seen loads of poor examples on this site (don't get me wrong - some decent ones, too!). But when I follow littlejadebonsai on IG, they show some truly awe-inspiring (to me) portie bonsai. The difference seems to be the maturity of the material used. I have grown a lot of small cuttings, and it would take ages to get them there. One thing that I have considered, especially when seeing the rapid growth you got here, is planting a few established plants out in the garden in the spring, see how they do with a growing season in the ground, then pull them back out before the first frost.

Anyway, cool journey - thanks for sharing with us.
 

Maico

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I ran a similar, longer term experiment with saguaro cacti from seed about 20 years ago. I planted seed and kept several plants in identical conditions except that I watered most by the traditional "only when bone dry" approach and one with my "as long as it's still growing" approach. I did this for 10 years. I still have 2 of those cacti now...they just turned 20 this year! Can you tell which one got the more water?
That is fascinating. I only water my Saguaro twice a year. It’s 45 years ol and only 40 inches tall.
I always thought it stayed small because it was in a pot. It looks like it stayed small because I hardly water it. Very interesting.
 

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LittleDingus

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I'm just the opposite. P. afra is OK, I hate the fat c ovata. I had a couple in my office and decided they needed to just go away, and "poof" they are gone.

My then girlfriend (now wife) gifted me my c ovata in 1990 for Easter when we were still in college. I've got a bit of an attachment too it :D
 

LittleDingus

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All of mine seem to get those swollen-looking red shoots that never seem to fully "harden off," making them pretty ugly for bonsai. I have also seen loads of poor examples on this site (don't get me wrong - some decent ones, too!). But when I follow littlejadebonsai on IG, they show some truly awe-inspiring (to me) portie bonsai. The difference seems to be the maturity of the material used. I have grown a lot of small cuttings, and it would take ages to get them there. One thing that I have considered, especially when seeing the rapid growth you got here, is planting a few established plants out in the garden in the spring, see how they do with a growing season in the ground, then pull them back out before the first frost.

Anyway, cool journey - thanks for sharing with us.

Agreed...I've seen some really nice p afra but they tend to look like well cared for plants than trees to me. They tend to have a bit of a plastic look to my eye due to the waxy, thick leaves and smooth trunks. Still impressive to look at! Just not my taste...

I've never seen a cork bark variety in person though. I'd consider trying one of those just to see if they do develop that "aged" look a little better.

Succulents, in general, don't "harden". They aren't woody so they don't lignify like trees do. Their stems are water storage organs. That's why they tend to die back to a node...nodes are where the soft tissue can be more easily sealed against dehydration.
 

LittleDingus

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That is fascinating. I only water my Saguaro twice a year. It’s 45 years ol and only 40 inches tall.
I always thought it stayed small because it was in a pot. It looks like it stayed small because I hardly water it. Very interesting.

Funny that you mention saguaro!

My in-laws moved to Pheonix to retire in 2001. My mother-in-law sent me some sagauro seed from their house hunting trip. The description on the back of the package mentioned "slow growing" and "attains a height of 4 inches after 10 years". That seemed too slow to me and I reasoned that must be in nature with desert water conditions. So, I set up an experiment :D

I sowed the seed I had in 2001. Once they were large enough to transplant separately...I started treating them differently. I kept them as close together as I could, but one set only got natural rain. The other set got watered basically every day as long as they were in active growth. I lived in Illinois at the time so even the "rain water only" set got more water than the desert natives!

After 10 years (we moved) I stopped the experiment. I still have one cactus from each set today. Can you guess which one got more water??

20200729_174946.jpg

You can tell where I called the experiment on the shorter one...it's club shaped! Where the bulge begins is roughly where it was at 10 years. It gets watered a little more often when growing these days.

The taller one is 36" from soil line and ~11" in diameter. The taller one has created 2 new ribs over the years...

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...the shorter one: none.

I've been very worried about my champion saguaro the past few years, though. I repotted it 3 years ago. It hadn't entered an active growth phase since then...until finally this year!

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I was never more relieved to see a plant enter active growth as I was when my saguaro finally started growing again! It's got some bad barking around the base and a jacked up tap root from growing in a pot. These things are so good at storing water it can literally take a decade for the top to die after the roots die. I never water it when it is in the house for the winter. But I've been trying not to water it as much even when outside as it hasn't put on new growth in nearly 3 years!

@Maico Is your saguaro from seed? It looks great :D "I only water my Saguaro twice a year." Does that mean you cover it from the rains? Or you only supplemental water it twice a year? Do you need to move it at all...ever?!? I have to strap mine to a hand truck to move it in/out of the house for the winter.

Repotting is last time was interesting! My wife laughed at my "engineering"!

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Some of its thorns are 3" long! This thing is no joke! I keep it by the grill so I can snap the sharp tips off the thorns while I barbeque just to blunt them a little! It weighted nearly 70 pounds in that repotting picture! I wrapped the column in towels to protect the thorns...and me! as I carried it around. I pulled it upright in the pot by throwing that towel over the top of it and dragging it side to side. The thorns gripped the towel and I was able to pull it into position that way. I'm not sure how I'm ever going to repot it again...it doesn't need repot often, but it does need raised in the pot every couple of years. It's already sunk in about 6" from where it was initial positioned.

Anyway...a saguaro in a pot is as much of a "bonsai" as a p afra is ;) And this one is one of the most dear-to-me plants I own. I'm not sure I'll live long enough to get a branch to "style" though ;)
 

Maico

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Some of its thorns are 3" long! This thing is no joke! I keep it by the grill so I can snap the sharp tips off the thorns while I barbeque just to blunt them a little! It weighted nearly 70 pounds in that repotting picture! I wrapped the column in towels to protect the thorns...and me! as I carried it around. I pulled it upright in the pot by throwing that towel over the top of it and dragging it side to side. The thorns gripped the towel and I was able to pull it into position that way. I'm not sure how I'm ever going to repot it again...it doesn't need repot often, but it does need raised in the pot every couple of years. It's already sunk in about 6" from where it was initial positioned.

Anyway...a saguaro in a pot is as much of a "bonsai" as a p afra is ;) And this one is one of the most dear-to-me plants I own. I'm not sure I'll live long enough to get a branch to "style" though ;)
For you to have grown those from seed and back east is a testimate to your patience and skill. When I brought my saguaro and ocotillo back from Arizona everyone said it wouldn’t grow here in Anaheim. I bought it from a nursery in Glendale Arizona. It was a 24 inch little spear that I had to bare root to legally bring it to California. It was approximately 20 years old and that was 25 years ago. I have repotted it once about 15 years ago. I wrapped it in carpet, broke the old pot and heave hoed it into its current pot. I still got stuck all over the place. You growing a Saguaro from a seed , back east is hard core. I agree, I don’t think we’re going to get a whole lot of ramification very soon.
 

Maico

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saguaro from seed? It looks great :D "I only water my Saguaro twice a year." Does that mean you cover it from the rains? Or you only supplemental water it twice a year? Do you need to move it at all...ever?!? I have to strap mine to a hand truck to move it in/out of the house for the winter.
It does get rain water. But here in SoCal it hardly ever rains. So I give a good soaking twice a year and whatever rain water happens to fall.
I don’t move it much, but when I do I use a hand truck. It is heavy.
 

LittleDingus

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For you to have grown those from seed and back east is a testimate to your patience and skill. When I brought my saguaro and ocotillo back from Arizona everyone said it wouldn’t grow here in Anaheim. I bought it from a nursery in Glendale Arizona. It was a 24 inch little spear that I had to bare root to legally bring it to California. It was approximately 20 years old and that was 25 years ago. I have repotted it once about 15 years ago. I wrapped it in carpet, broke the old pot and heave hoed it into its current pot. I still got stuck all over the place. You growing a Saguaro from a seed , back east is hard core. I agree, I don’t think we’re going to get a whole lot of ramification very soon.

A very experiences cactus and succulent grower with a serious pedigree in cacti once told me it was impossible to grow a saguaro outside the Sonoran for more than a few years because the humidity kills them. He even told me all the "special" measures he takes in his greenhouse to keep humidities low enough for his saguaro (and other desert species) to survive. It's people like him...whom I've met in every hobby I've ever done seriously...that foster my distrust in "the aristocracy" that tends to form around clubs/organizations/shows for the hobby :(

The sad thing is, his statement is couched in truths...but too extreme. It's the regurgitation of real facts to support a believed "universal" truth without understanding of nuance and distinction. But I look around and that's what society is these days :(

Not all cacti grow in the desert. There are prickly pear species that grow very happily in Missouri and Illinois among other places. I know where there are several patches of them in the wild here in Kansas city. I really should take some pictures to have on hand for proof when needed :) I used to see them occasionally in the wild in Illinois. My uncle used to grow them in his garden to cook with. They'd be covered 2' deep in snow shoveled off the sidewalks. Cacti are evolved to store water...their waxy coating doesn't give a shit about high humidity!

Except when it does ;) Different fungi can sometimes be a problem. But the biggest problem is cool temperatures. High humidity and cool temperatures often means high soil moisture as well. Cool temperatures means dormancy...the cacti's natural defenses to rot and fungi slow down. There are some "dry rot" fungi that can be very dangerous to succulents if they can get through the waxy layers into the moisture. Some cacti have evolved to deal with that and can survive in the mid-west. Saguaro's can take a light snow and light freezing temps if the soil is dry enough.

I've, thankfully, been able to avoid those issues. They aren't hard to avoid. Saguaro here in the east is kinda like a gremlin: no water after August :D
 

Maico

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The sad thing is, his statement is couched in truths...but too extreme. It's the regurgitation of real facts to support a believed "universal" truth without understanding of nuance and distinction. But I look around and that's what society is these days :(
That is certainly true. Taking some truth and distorting it. Instead of encouraging me, I was dismissed.
Your Saguaros are beautiful.
What amazes me is I don’t see any in my area.
All I did was stick it in a pot and ignore it.
 
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