Distinguishing Hagarumo from Ko Ko No E

mrcasey

Mame
Messages
213
Reaction score
117
Location
WV
USDA Zone
6
I lost the labels on some of my grafted jwp cultivars. Does anybody know of any tell=tale features that distinguish the similar looking cultivars of kokonoe and hagarumo from each other?
 

penumbra

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
6,857
Reaction score
11,032
Location
Front Royal, VA
USDA Zone
6
Hagarumo is a much more compact plant. It is kind of a super dwarf that grows about an inch a year into a bun shape.
Kokonoe is more pyramidal and gets larger and grows up yo 4 inches a year.
They both have very short bluish needles but the needles of kokonoe have a twist to them. It is also a much older cultivar.
 

penumbra

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
6,857
Reaction score
11,032
Location
Front Royal, VA
USDA Zone
6
I lost the labels
I think that is a common affliction. My intention this year is to make two tags for each plant. One to bury in the pot and thus reduce fading, the other visible.
I am also a lover of JWP but will probably not live long enough to have a bonsai of one. That's ok, I just love the plants .... so much more than Black Pines.
 

mrcasey

Mame
Messages
213
Reaction score
117
Location
WV
USDA Zone
6
I use little aluminum tags with pounded in letters. Several years ago, I did my own propagation through grafting of Ko Ko No E, Hagarumo, Aoba Jo, Ibo Can, and glauca. I don't know why but the Ibo Can and glauca have survived while most of the others haven't. I have one left that is neither Ibo Can or glauca and I hope it's Ko Ko No E.
 

mwar15

Chumono
Messages
845
Reaction score
1,642
Location
Willamette Valley, Oregon
USDA Zone
8B
I am curious about your grafting. Are you using EWP for the rootstock? I did some last year but it was in February and it was too late. Are you grating to seedlings or more mature trees?
 

penumbra

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
6,857
Reaction score
11,032
Location
Front Royal, VA
USDA Zone
6
I am curious about your grafting. Are you using EWP for the rootstock? I did some last year but it was in February and it was too late. Are you grating to seedlings or more mature trees?
I too am curious about that. I don't care for Black pine rootstock. I will take a picture of a 33 years old one tomorrow and you will see why. I do have some Mugo pine seedlings to try. I have 10 cultivars of JWP now and two more soon.
 

mwar15

Chumono
Messages
845
Reaction score
1,642
Location
Willamette Valley, Oregon
USDA Zone
8B
I too am curious about that. I don't care for Black pine rootstock. I will take a picture of a 33 years old one tomorrow and you will see why. I do have some Mugo pine seedlings to try. I have 10 cultivars of JWP now and two more soon.
I did do some cork jbp on jbp rootstock. But I stick with EWP for jwp. EWP does better here
 

penumbra

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
6,857
Reaction score
11,032
Location
Front Royal, VA
USDA Zone
6
I did do some cork jbp on jbp rootstock. But I stick with EWP for jwp. EWP does better here
That makes so much sense to me but I don't understand why JBP are a standard used as rootstock for JWP.
Also, February seems like it would be perfect. Why was it too late? What are the criteria? Your climate is milder than mine and I don't want to miss my window.
 

mrcasey

Mame
Messages
213
Reaction score
117
Location
WV
USDA Zone
6
I am curious about your grafting. Are you using EWP for the rootstock? I did some last year but it was in February and it was too late. Are you grating to seedlings or more mature trees?
I use jbp root stock. I don't necessarily think it's the best, just what I've always done. I graft at two different times during the year: mid February and early September. The reason I use jbp is because that's what was traditionally used by bonsai folks. I suspect, like y'all, that a different root stock might work better. My biggest frustration so far hasn't been the graft unions or the first year take. It's that sometimes they'll die after 2 or 3 years and I have no idea why.
 

mwar15

Chumono
Messages
845
Reaction score
1,642
Location
Willamette Valley, Oregon
USDA Zone
8B
That makes so much sense to me but I don't understand why JBP are a standard used as rootstock for JWP.
Also, February seems like it would be perfect. Why was it too late? What are the criteria? Your climate is milder than mine and I don't want to miss my window.
The nurseryman I help only uses EWP, for all his pines. He says it does better and is more vigorous.

it was April, I think the first time I tried it. I was going to try the end of January this year.
 

mwar15

Chumono
Messages
845
Reaction score
1,642
Location
Willamette Valley, Oregon
USDA Zone
8B
I use jbp root stock. I don't necessarily think it's the best, just what I've always done. I graft at two different times during the year: mid February and early September. The reason I use jbp is because that's what was traditionally used by bonsai folks. I suspect, like y'all, that a different root stock might work better. My biggest frustration so far hasn't been the graft unions or the first year take. It's that sometimes they'll die after 2 or 3 years and I have no idea why.
Gotcha, I know enough to be dangerous. Are you protecting them and just letting them grow for a couple years after grafting?
 

mrcasey

Mame
Messages
213
Reaction score
117
Location
WV
USDA Zone
6
Gotcha, I know enough to be dangerous. Are you protecting them and just letting them grow for a couple years after grafting?
I've never protected them from much of anything. My substrate for growing stuff out is pine bark and perlite. It can stay pretty damp through the winter and I wonder if maybe I'm not seeing root problems because of that in mid summer. Truth is, unless I'm dealing with insects, I find diagnosing plant problems really difficult.
 

mwar15

Chumono
Messages
845
Reaction score
1,642
Location
Willamette Valley, Oregon
USDA Zone
8B
It can be tough. I am assuming you didn’t wire them? With grafts it may look good and really there is just a hair of cambium connected. I have a graft that is still green but hasn’t grown in 3 years.
 

mrcasey

Mame
Messages
213
Reaction score
117
Location
WV
USDA Zone
6
It can be tough. I am assuming you didn’t wire them? With grafts it may look good and really there is just a hair of cambium connected. I have a graft that is still green but hasn’t grown in 3 years.
No wire. No nothing.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
kakejiku Distinguishing Calligraphy Styles Prints, paintings, netsuke, and misc 3

Similar threads

Top Bottom