Do bonsai demos have value?

[Adair M]

Here in the US and Europe, at shows and conventions there are events where a headliner takes a piece of nursery material and transforms it into a bonsai in a given time period. They don’t do this in Japan.

I think it might be interesting to discuss the pros and cons of these demonstrations and whether anyone thinks they have actually learned anything from attending one.

 

[Tidal Bonsai]

I’ve only been in this hobby for about three or four years, so maybe those with more experience may have a different opinion than I do. I had this very conversation with some of my club members after seeing Koji do a demo back in October. He mentioned the fact it in Japan they learn by doing bonsai, rather than watching demos. Personally I feel like I have learned very little from demos vs. participating in workshops.

 

[cheap_walmart_art]

Brussels did a demo at our club show this weekend. It seemed to catch the eye of a lot of the non-bonsai people meandering through the display hall. Maybe they help get people into the hobby? I arrived too late to get much out of it as he was finishing up when I got there. The tree looked good though, and the auction money helped the club when it sold.

 

[BobbyLane]

ive never been to one, only watched on youtube. of course, in regards to styling a blank canvas... it helps to see how the pros do it and what decisions are made during the styling process. kind of gives you an insight into the mind of a pro. i think ive learned something from watching many demos on youtube, so i think there is some educational value there.

 

[Gary McCarthy]

If it's a live in person demo and you're sitting in the audience it's difficult to see the finer detail work/wiring being done. I REALLY like the Bonsai Mirai live streams with their detail camera to see all that finer work.

 

[Dav4]

The demos I've assisted with at the Atlanta Bonsai society have almost always been accompanied by sammiches, chips, and cookies, so.....

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

My girlfriend had a hard time envisioning how trees are developed. She doesn't understand the 'ugly phase' mine are all in. At Noelanders, the first thing we did was visiting the sales area and she saw only a few nice ones (all pretty developed).
At the demos she learned a lot about tree care, design decisions, and why trees halfway through development don't always look that pretty. For her, it was an eye opener. She really admired the amount of work the people put into it and almost immediately she started discussing techniques with me.
She told me that it makes a whole lot more sense now when I talk about why I wired a branch in a certain position.

She has no horticultural background and knows little to nothing about trees. Nowadays she shows genuine interest and even comes up with her own answers to specific issues.

 

[Maloghurst]

Duplicate.

 

[Maloghurst]

My girlfriend had a hard time envisioning how trees are developed. She doesn't understand the 'ugly phase' mine are all in. At Noelanders, the first thing we did was visiting the sales area and she saw only a few nice ones (all pretty developed).
At the demos she learned a lot about tree care, design decisions, and why trees halfway through development don't always look that pretty. For her, it was an eye opener. She really admired the amount of work the people put into it and almost immediately she started discussing techniques with me.
She told me that it makes a whole lot more sense now when I talk about why I wired a branch in a certain position.

She has no horticultural background and knows little to nothing about trees. Nowadays she shows genuine interest and even comes up with her own answers to specific issues.

Must be nice.

 

[0soyoung]

I think there is a difference in the Western and Eastern bonsai business models. In Japan, the bonsai nursery makes the tree, you buy it, and the bonsai nursery keeps it for you - teaching you how to DIY it is not what they do. It is the core of spreading/creating interest in bonsai in the west.

 

[parhamr]

These are all interesting ideas, anecdotes, and discussion prompts.

It seems we westerners approach bonsai as a “having” and “doing” sort of hobby and art, so from what I’ve seen of demos, they’re providing people with inspiration and examples of what it takes to have bonsai and to “do” bonsai.

 

[Maloghurst]

I think the are helpful because I have found that styling a tree is probably the most difficult aspect of bonsai. That’s why professionals are paid to do it. There are a lot of people with bonsai nurseries and the material is not great. They are mostly growing trunks to sell with very little styled material. Then people that can style tree buy them and increase the value greatly. They are selling the potential in the tree but it’s very difficult to bring it to the next level without spending 5 years in japan. So for me the more I see someone style a difficult or not so difficult piece of material the better i will be able to at least envision something for my trees.
That being said it’s refreshing to see a person doing a demo who just sets the bones and does not make a “finished” bonsai in 4 hours.

 

[leatherback]

The demo's are nice to see what steps are involved in taking really rough material to the basic bonsai stage. Also, when done in public spaces they attract attention of passers-by and as such are great to get new people into the hobby (I did a day-long demo a few weeks back, which resulted in some 10 persons asking for the details of the club I was doing the work for). Overall they are nice as inspiration. If done well, the demonstrator will explain the steps and choices made.

That being said.. THe downside of many demos is that the trees are unprepared. Like the thread I posted earlier has a tree that was not prepared for styling, you typically see that in a demo trees are pushed to a point where you really do not want to go for the health of the plant. And because the tree needs to look like a finished bonsai, styling shortcuts are taken.

At the world convention in Saitema they had done this different: All demo trees had been pre-worked over a period of 2 years. No styling decisions were taken for most. But backbudding had been induced, very long branches reduced etcetc. This allows for proper styling during a demo.

I for one would be pushing for this if I am ever involved in a serious demo somewhere.

 

[Tidal Bonsai]

At the world convention in Saitema they had done this different: All demo trees had been pre-worked over a period of 2 years. No styling decisions were taken for most. But backbudding had been induced, very long branches reduced etcetc. This allows for proper styling during a demo.

I for one would be pushing for this if I am ever involved in a serious demo somewhere.

I second this! Taking a tree from a rough piece of stock to it’s first iteration (setting primary branches, picking a “front,” opening the tree to light, removing what is unnecessary, etc.) ideally should only happen once in the life of a bonsai. However this is all that is shown in a traditional demo. The other 99% of the trees development in your care is not discussed, practiced, or addressed in this traditional model.

 

[MrWunderful]

I think it has minimal impact for bonsai hobbyists, other than seeing *name* work on material.

Far more beneficial for people not “into” bonsai to catch their attention.

 

[Adair M]

I think there is a difference in the Western and Eastern bonsai business models. In Japan, the bonsai nursery makes the tree, you buy it, and the bonsai nursery keeps it for you - teaching you how to DIY it is not what they do. It is the core of spreading/creating interest in bonsai in the west.

0so, there is some of that in Japan, for sure. Especially for the really top of the high end bonsai. There are lots of hobbyists as well.

Perhaps @Djtommy can give us better insight into that since he lives there.

 

[Adair M]

I think there is a difference in the Western and Eastern bonsai business models. In Japan, the bonsai nursery makes the tree, you buy it, and the bonsai nursery keeps it for you - teaching you how to DIY it is not what they do. It is the core of spreading/creating interest in bonsai in the west.

0so, there is some of that in Japan, for sure. Especially for the really top of the high end bonsai. There are lots of hobbyists as well.

Perhaps @Djtommy can give us better insight into that since he lives there. I’ve also sent Kaya Mooney a message asking about it. He’s an apprentice at the place Bjorn was at, so he can tell me what he has observed during his time there.

 

[AlainK]

It's very interesting to see a demo by a pro, you can understand the options taken for the final design.

But many demos are not done at the right time for the tree, it's the right time for the exhibition, but maybe not for the tree. I did a "contest" once, on young junipers that had to be styled. I didn't win - and I understood why right from the beginning - but the winner's tree died a few months later, like 9 out of ten that were worked on that day.

Of course, pros don't lose trees like us beginners do, but it can happen : on a French forum where I found the link about Kunio Kobayashi, someone said that when he was younger he made a demo and the tree died. He was so ashamed that he even thought of suicide, which I can believe considering the sense of "honour" in the Japanese culture.

I'm immune to suicide, I've been in touch with the virus too often, so I just don't take part in contests, and only watch demos by super-pros. I don't even participate in workshops with professionals when I have the opportunity : I lost a beautiful Taxus that I worked following the advice of a very good pro in Europe. At least, if I kill a tree, there's no one else to blame than me

 

[JudyB]

I went to a couple of them at Kannapolis, and I really attended them more as a lecture, not really interested in they styling work per se, but to gain information about the particular species. I imagine in most cases the subject may not last long without proper aftercare.

 

[leatherback]

but the winner's tree died a few months later, like 9 out of ten that were worked on that day.

I imagine in most cases the subject may not last long without proper aftercare.

Both make the same point. I would like to reverse however the statement.. With the right aftercare, a lot of work can be done at any time of the year..