Do you come to a discussion forum for the truth or an attaboy?

Smoke

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I think it might have to be someone like Valavanis, because it seems that he's a teacher at heart. Learning from a person who is strictly an artist would not be necessarily as productive as learning from an artist who is also a teacher. Unless you get a year instead of a day. Then the learning would come from intuitive means, as you'd get to know them and learn from what they are doing instead of just from what they are saying.

Without the hoorah, unless there is some reason you want to keep it private, then the rest of us miss out on the learning that is taking place behind PM doors...

Exactly. You have chosen someone who has exhibited a knowledge of growing, training, teaching and displaying. You are paying attention to what he has given. That is the only true measure of a man.

You have chosen because he has shown the capibility to exhibit proof of his claim and a life time of work, not parroted the speak of those on half a dozen forums.......
 

fore

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Good topic Smoke. I've only posted a handful of trees but that's because at this point, there's not much to show. But when I do, I expect/hope for an honest assessment. There's a ton of people who know so much more than I here, I'm very open to their criticism. I use PMs for specific questions I have for someone, or to get an honest opinion on a tree under consideration to buy. Given the attitude to publicly discuss cost/money issues on the forum, which I understand btw, I find it much more valuable asking someone who I trust their opinion on cost/value, as, at this point in my dev., I'm still unsure of myself lol
 

jkd2572

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You can keep your spotted dick on that side of the pond. What a disturbing name for food...
 

bumblebee

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Not to go too far off track, but....I saw a can of Spotted Dick for sale near here. Almost bought it
just for fun. Don't even remember what it was.

Libby
 

Smoke

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I'll stick to fruit cake ..thank you
 

Smoke

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Your a barbarian, Hadrian tried to keep your lot out.
 

Klytus

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I'll be visiting the wall resonably soon with a view to living within a stones throw,i'll be taking my Viking detector so there may be coins or else there will be ring pulls.
 
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This is by far, my favorite forum. I like the straight talk and lack of nannys admonishing users for any discussion that is not pc.
Smoke reminds me of some of my little league coaches from the 1970's: To the point. Anyone coming of age in that time may know what I am talking about.
I haven't posted any trees mainly because there is nothing to show yet, just some yamadori and nursery stock in development. I suspect I will be an empty nester in a couple of years and God-willing, I will have some more time and money to delve deeper into this hobby.

BTW, Smoke - My Dad and I used to comb my uncle's farm looking for points after he would spring plow. I usually found some flint chips, but my Dad had a keen eye. In one week he found a Hopewell celt and an Adena celt in the same week.
 

Attila Soos

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I'm glad. Over the last couple of years I have seen a few people leave the hobby for a number of reasons.

The only reason that we stick to this hobby forever, is that we love it too much. You cannot just have a mild interest in it, and expect to stay permanently, because the commitment is too much to handle.
So, it is very normal that so many quit. We are not the normal. We (the lifers), are the exception.
 

Attila Soos

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My Dad and I used to comb my uncle's farm looking for points after he would spring plow. I usually found some flint chips, but my Dad had a keen eye. In one week he found a Hopewell celt and an Adena celt in the same week.

Man, those things are so catchy, but treacherous. A few moths ago, I almost bought a small collection of arrowheads on a garage sale (due to temporary loss of sanity), but luckily I quickly recovered my common sense before dishing out all that money. I told myself that although the guy seemed very honest and knowleadgeable, what if all that is smoke and mirrors, and the collection is a fake? You either learn a great deal, or hire an expert.

So, I'll just stick to bonsai.

As far as the point of this thread is concerned, I find it amazing, how many people take the free advice of experienced people for granted, as if they are entitled to it. When I see a novice who started the hobby 6 months ago, argue with somebody who has been the student of this art for many decades, I realize how undeserving these privileged brats are. I still believe that a true lover of the art should make a lot of effort to spread the knowledge, but I also see that some people are not worthy of it. This must be the reason, why the masters of the old (before the Internet), were so careful to select their apprentices. It takes great effort to teach somebody the right way, and the student must be ready for it.

With bonsai, I would separate the information in two categories: popular bonsai information, and hands-on, in-depth bonsai information. The Internet is great to disperse popular art and science, to whet the appetite. It is also great for advertising someone's epxertise, without giving away too much. Then it's the student's turn to make the effort and seek out the knowledge. And that is not going to be free. It all depends on how serious you are about learning. Some people are more than happy with just scratching the surface. This is a hobby, after all.
 
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Paradox

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I come to this forum to learn about bonsai and to interact with people in the hobby because there doesn't seem to be many people active near me.

I have several books, many of which are considered great resources, but they mainly repeat the same information and deal with mostly the same species. Here, I get to see what other people have done with different trees and learn from the good and the bad alike.

I'm still very new to bonsai and most of my trees (if not all) at this point are nothing special. Most are nursery stock that I am using to learn how to keep trees in pots alive, how to repot, how to prune, how they respond and grow before investing in more expensive stuff. Id rather kill a $20 tree than a $200 tree.

I appreciate what the more experienced people here have to offer and read all of their threads along with the questions we get from newer people.

I've posted a few trees and when I do, I appreciate an honest opinion about them. For now I've stopped posting new trees because I realized that until I start doing something with them or if I need advice, there's no point in posting it. If I post a tree that has no potential, then Id like to know that and why. If I post a tree that has potential, then Id like to hear that too. That's how we learn.

I have to agree with some of the posts above that honest criticism is desired and should be given but it should not be in an insulting or degrading way.
 
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I think the most important point of smokes philosophical treatise has been missed, despite the fact that he's brought it up in each reply. Al makes the point that, in each of his hobbies, each forum has posters that are full of crap, and posters that are "in the know." he makes the point again regarding Judy's choice of "Bill for a day." lesson, for me at least: check the credentials and previous posts of those who have something to say, here, or in other forums. See how many trees they've posted, results they've shown, fact check!! As a public forum, there are both knowledgeable people and people full of crap here, Al's method is one way to tell the difference, by asking. Reading previous posts is another. Checking information against reputable sources is still another. I did much the same on my hunt for Japanese pottery knowledge, now I'm the first step for others' hunts for accurate information. And I'm happy to point them in the right direction. Thanks Al, well played....or should I say, Attaboy.
Ryan
http://japanesebonsaipots.net/
 
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