Do you put pre-bonsai in bonsai soil or potting soil?

imahawki

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If you are taking say, nursery stock and cutting it back to scale the foliage to match the trunk size and then it needs to grow for a couple seasons, do you put it in potting soil or go straight to bonsai soil?
 

Martin Sweeney

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imahawki,

I would begin the process of moving it into bonsai soil while letting it grow out.

Regards,
Martin
 

Stan Kengai

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Bonsai soil is, by far, the best medium for growing roots in a container. Potting soil is great, if you are growing something in the ground with a heavy layer of mulch on top. There are plenty of threads on here about making you own inexpensive bonsai mix. Also try asking someone local to you.
 

Vance Wood

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In general the answers you have received are spot on. However; sometimes it depends on the nature of the bonsai mix and the species of tree. In other words you are not going to get the same, or even good results, with a Japanese Maple planted in a mix suitable for conifers and vice versa.
 

Ang3lfir3

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In other words you are not going to get the same, or even good results, with a Japanese Maple planted in a mix suitable for conifers and vice versa.

^^ A truth that often takes people a long time to accept .....


I tend to use a cheaper bonsai mix for plants that are just growing out .... in other words ... no akadama (not till they get to be something)
 

imahawki

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My problem is I'm having trouble sourcing local ingredients for bonsai soil. I can't be stuck paying $14 for a tiny little back of Hoffman "bonsai soil mix".
 

Poink88

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My problem is I'm having trouble sourcing local ingredients for bonsai soil. I can't be stuck paying $14 for a tiny little back of Hoffman "bonsai soil mix".
Try looking for a local source of Turface. I mostly use Turface MVP and "soil conditioner" from Lowe's which is mostly fine decomposed pine bark mulch. Turface is around $14.00/50 lb bag and the soil conditioner is less that $4.00/2 cf bag.

EDIT IN: Mixed (a bag of each), makes roughly 3.5 cu ft of good bonsai soil (that's a lot) that works on 90%+ of my trees. Not bad for $18.00 :)
 
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TheDarkHorseOne

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I don't know it it's ever been plager.. er posted here, but John Naka has an extensive list of soil mixes for near every tree you could imagine in his first techniques book. I hear and see a lot of differing soils both here and all over the 'net, but if I were going to trust an opinion, I'd go with the American Master before many, if any.

If you have a specific tree, I'd be happy to quote you his thoughts, if that's OK here.
 

Poink88

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I don't know it it's ever been plager.. er posted here, but John Naka has an extensive list of soil mixes for near every tree you could imagine in his first techniques book. I hear and see a lot of differing soils both here and all over the 'net, but if I were going to trust an opinion, I'd go with the American Master before many, if any.

If you have a specific tree, I'd be happy to quote you his thoughts, if that's OK here.
Wise but may not be practical or cost effective. As you mentioned, there are oodles of soil mixes used by different people...some are finely customized to their plant, weather, watering style, etc. What worked for Naka may or may not to me or you.
 

berobinson82

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Wise but may not be practical or cost effective. As you mentioned, there are oodles of soil mixes used by different people...some are finely customized to their plant, weather, watering style, etc. What worked for Naka may or may not to me or you.

To follow on to this, I believe Walter Pall mentioned in one of his videos that most of us are not professionals that spend all day at our nurseries with apprentices to water our trees multiple times. His point was, while those of us with more time on their hands can use the most course, free-draining soil they can mix up, amateurs and those of us with busy schedules may benefit from a more organic mix that holds moisture. Of course, these conditions may not be optimal for tree development, but it may help us keep them alive in these new American summers... I expect this comment to be controversial.
 
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rockm

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"I don't know it it's ever been plager.. er posted here, but John Naka has an extensive list of soil mixes for near every tree you could imagine in his first techniques book. I hear and see a lot of differing soils both here and all over the 'net, but if I were going to trust an opinion, I'd go with the American Master before many, if any.

If you have a specific tree, I'd be happy to quote you his thoughts, if that's OK here. "

I know you're trying to help, but this can be a death sentence for a tree. Naka's first book was basically a compilation of help sheets he gave his students during personal classes in Southern California is the early to mid 1960's.

Unless you're in Southern California and can locate the ingredients Naka was using 45 years ago, you're walking on very thin ice. Using "loam" (and this is a VERY flexible term with huge potential for error) in wetter colder climates, for instance, you will kill trees in short order, pines in shorter order.

The thinking about soils has changed dramatically in the last 20 years. What is being used now is based on extremely well draining components that hold up under years of weather. Fired clay products, like turface and haydite which have been used very successfully in the last 15 years weren't even on the radar in the 60's and 70's.

Naka's DESIGN advice is excellent, but his soil and care advice is accurate only in the climate that it was written for. Use it at your own very substantial risk...
 

rockm

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"I don't know it it's ever been plager.. er posted here, but John Naka has an extensive list of soil mixes for near every tree you could imagine in his first techniques book. I hear and see a lot of differing soils both here and all over the 'net, but if I were going to trust an opinion, I'd go with the American Master before many, if any.

If you have a specific tree, I'd be happy to quote you his thoughts, if that's OK here. "

I know you're trying to help, but this can be a death sentence for a tree. Naka's first book was basically a compilation of help sheets he gave his students during personal classes in Southern California is the early to mid 1960's.

Unless you're in Southern California and can locate the ingredients Naka was using 45 years ago, you're walking on very thin ice. Using "loam" (and this is a VERY flexible term with huge potential for error) in wetter colder climates, for instance, you will kill trees in short order, pines in shorter order.

The thinking about soils has changed dramatically in the last 20 years. What is being used now is based on extremely well draining components that hold up under years of weather. Fired clay products, like turface and haydite which have been used very successfully in the last 15 years weren't even on the radar in the 60's and 70's.

Naka's DESIGN advice is excellent, but his soil and care advice is accurate only in the climate that it was written for. Use it at your own very substantial risk...
 

xray360

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Try looking for a local source of Turface. I mostly use Turface MVP and "soil conditioner" from Lowe's which is mostly fine decomposed pine bark mulch. Turface is around $14.00/50 lb bag and the soil conditioner is less that $4.00/2 cf bag.

EDIT IN: Mixed (a bag of each), makes roughly 3.5 cu ft of good bonsai soil (that's a lot) that works on 90%+ of my trees. Not bad for $18.00 :)

Hi what's the name of the bag you get for the pine bark mulch. I always find the black or red mulch which I don't like because it has dye in it. I have been using Organic potting mix and sifting out the fines using the pine bark and some spongy organic material with 50% turface or oil dri. It takes a while to make 1 gallon of soil.
 

Poink88

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Hi what's the name of the bag you get for the pine bark mulch. I always find the black or red mulch which I don't like because it has dye in it. I have been using Organic potting mix and sifting out the fines using the pine bark and some spongy organic material with 50% turface or oil dri. It takes a while to make 1 gallon of soil.
I will check the bag tonight and post the info. It is decomposed bark mulch so it is naturally black. The size is perfect for me and being in TX, I need the fines so I do not even sift my mix. It all get mixed in and even on the hottest days, I can still go out on weekends and not fear my trees will totally dry out in 48 hours (some may wilt a bit though). Note that they are on bigger training pots also.

I looked online and I believe it is Hapi-Gro Soil Conditioner. The bag looks like this...
http://www.lowes.com/pd_78375-76450-LX02H_0__?productId=3504546

http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay?partNumber=92433-76450-CM40H
 
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JudyB

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To follow on to this, I believe Walter Pall mentioned in one of his videos that most of us are not professionals that spend all day at our nurseries with apprentices to water our trees multiple times. His point was, while those of us with more time on their hands can use the most course, free-draining soil they can mix up, amateurs and those of us with busy schedules may benefit from a more organic mix that holds moisture. Of course, these conditions may not be optimal for tree development, but it may help us keep them alive in these new American summers... I expect this comment to be controversial.

I agree with the intent, that the mix that works for one person does not necessarily work for another. It's all so dependent on climate, and horticultural practices.

But I can say that fast draining soil seems to be less problematic for many reasons, unless you live in a dry climate.
water timers and sprinkler/misting systems can be helpful tools as well.
 
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