Do you water foliage? Or does it slow down the growth rate??

[Adair M]

The concept of not pinching Junipers does not stick with me. I see no reason for the concept.

This is your tree Vance:



Look at the branch structure. Look at the undersides of the pads. Can you see the little twigs supporting the foliage? Neither can I.

Look at the big balls of foliage that make up the pads. One big powder puff each.

Now compare it to mine:


can you see how there’s woody twigs below the foliage? There’s no foliage hanging? The pads are composed of lots of little tufts, not one big ball of foliage?

Now, just for fun, let’s have a look at a mountain juniper:





The foliage does make a rounded apex, but it’s not one big puff. It’s made up of lots of little tufts. You can see the twigs underneath the foliage. All the foliage is above the twig supporting it. There’s no “hanging” foliage, below the twig supporting it.

pinching the Silohette will make junipers look like yours. Going into the canopy, and thinning with scissors will develop a canopy that resembles the natural tree.

 

[MichaelS]

Read it here.

Is Foliar Feeding beneficial to Junipers?

The season is definitely switching to the 'on' position, for growth, here. I've been foliar feeding all of my subjects, on a schedule, and they seem to be responding quite well, however. It's hard for me to tell if my Junipers are responding at all. My Pines, Boxwood's, and Chinese elm are...

www.bonsainut.com

"In the Bonsai Empire courses, Bjorn Bjornholm recommends foliar feeding junipers with fish emulsion fertilizer. Supposedly junipers like to intake fertilizer through their foliage. There's also a lot out there saying foliar feeding doesn't do much. "

Thank you.

 

[MichaelS]

The foliage does make a rounded apex, but it’s not one big puff. It’s made up of lots of little tufts. You can see the twigs underneath the foliage. All the foliage is above the twig supporting it. There’s no “hanging” foliage, below the twig supporting it.

pinching the Silohette will make junipers look like yours. Going into the canopy, and thinning with scissors will develop a canopy that resembles the natural tree.

It depends on the tree and the environment. The traditional - and best - way to treat shimpaku is to pinch to get density because that is when the tree is most beautiful to look at - and then once a year going in and thinning out so it resembles yours and allows light to reach the interior. That does not mean pinching to one uniform dome but rather many small separate areas of density as you see in the upper portion of the tree below. There is however no ''right or ''wrong'' way to display them.

 

[MichaelS]

Yeah, that’s what he says, but what is happening is the lower branches are getting shaded by the upper branches. And most trees are programmed to grow up, and abandon the low branches as they grow taller. To counter that, if we want to keep low branches, we have to thin the upper branches to allow sunlight to get down to the lower branches.

What he actually says is the watering the lower branches (with normal watering of the pot using cold water) you may give a chilling effect to only the lower branches and tender new growth where as those higher up end up having more hours of warmth over time and this may cause a reduction of growth in the lower branches compared to those higher up. I haven't considered that before but it makes some sense. Nothing to do with shading. That's a different subject entirely.

 

[Adair M]

What he actually says is the watering the lower branches (with normal watering of the pot using cold water) you may give a chilling effect to only the lower branches and tender new growth where as those higher up end up having more hours of warmth over time and this may cause a reduction of growth in the lower branches compared to those higher up. I haven't considered that before but it makes some sense. Nothing to do with shading. That's a different subject entirely.

You are right about what he says. But I disagree that the water is slowing the growth of the lower branches. If he observes the the lower branches are slower growing, I believe it’s because they’re getting shaded out, and because of the natural growth habit of most trees is to favor the upper branches over the lower branches because the upper branches are getting the sunlight, which generates the food for the tree. Nothing to do with the water.

 

[Adair M]

It depends on the tree and the environment. The traditional - and best - way to treat shimpaku is to pinch to get density because that is when the tree is most beautiful to look at - and then once a year going in and thinning out so it resembles yours and allows light to reach the interior. That does not mean pinching to one uniform dome but rather many small separate areas of density as you see in the upper portion of the tree below. There is however no ''right or ''wrong'' way to display them.

View attachment 296668

Even in your example, Michael, the foliage is all above the supporting branches. Not as a big puff like cotton candy surrounding the supporting branch. And, the foliage is not one continuous arc of foliage. It’s composed of many smaller tufts, layered together that when combined create the Silohette.

I get that Silohette without having to pinch anything along the circumference.

 

[MichaelS]

What he actually says is the watering the lower branches (with normal watering of the pot using cold water) you may give a chilling effect to only the lower branches and tender new growth where as those higher up end up having more hours of warmth over time and this may cause a reduction of growth in the lower branches compared to those higher up. I haven't considered that before but it makes some sense. Nothing to do with shading. That's a different subject entirely.

I think you're doing the man (who seems to have a large mature collection and probably more experience than you) a disservice by suggesting he still hasn't caught up with such a basic concept as shading and the need for balancing. He is suggesting something completely different from that and it is you who has missed the subtleties not him.

 

[baron]

What he actually says is the watering the lower branches (with normal watering of the pot using cold water) you may give a chilling effect to only the lower branches and tender new growth where as those higher up end up having more hours of warmth over time and this may cause a reduction of growth in the lower branches compared to those higher up. I haven't considered that before but it makes some sense. Nothing to do with shading. That's a different subject entirely.

As always with these things it's very situational..
I believe Danny is talking about a greenhouse environment where it doesn't rain. It gets quite hot in there and if you blast only the lower branches with ice cold water over time they will suffer from it compared to the rest of the tree.
As you said, those lower branches are already somewhat weaker compared to the upper branches so they need to be handled with more care?
Has nothing to do with shading or anything. When trees are outside and it's raining the shock effect isn't there of course.

Like WP said, it's not bad to water the tree's foliage, but make sure to water everything and not just the lower branches?

I think you're doing the man (who seems to have a large mature collection and probably more experience than you) a disservice by suggesting he still hasn't caught up with such a basic concept as shading and the need for balancing. He is suggesting something completely different from that and it is you who has missed the subtleties not him.

and yes I have to agree here. Do you know even know Danny Use? With all the experience he has I don't question any of his methods.

 

[Forsoothe!]

It gets quite hot in there and if you blast only the lower branches with ice cold water over time they will suffer from it compared to the rest of the tree.
As you said, those lower branches are already somewhat weaker compared to the upper branches

That's non-operative. By the time that the spray travels from the nozzle to the tree, the air will have warmed it to nearly ambient, or at least half the temperature scale difference between the pipe or emitted temp and the air/plant temp. Air temps high enough to have mattered would have fried the whole plant, anyway. Conversely, but with the same effect; I water by hand and sometimes use hot water just because that valve is easier to operate and it, too, is near ambient by the time the pot has one serving of water.

 

[Mike Corazzi]

Psssst, Benjamin. One word.
Hydroponics.

 

[sorce]

That's non-operative. By the time that the spray travels from the nozzle to the tree, the air will have warmed it to nearly ambient, or at least half the temperature scale difference between the pipe or emitted temp and the air/plant temp. Air temps high enough to have mattered would have fried the whole plant, anyway. Conversely, but with the same effect; I water by hand and sometimes use hot water just because that valve is easier to operate and it, too, is near ambient by the time the pot has one serving of water.

Evaporative cooling still exists after this though.

pinching the Silohette will make junipers look like yours.

Seems you are still the one confused about the difference between how and where, not Vance.

It's not how you remove the foliage.
It's where.

Sorce

 

[penumbra]

As aluminum wire ages, the paint peels and fades, and it turns silver.

I use aluminum wire frequently and have for many years. I have never had this happen. To begin with, no aluminum wire I have ever used has been painted. It is anodized. If this finish wears off and shows silver color you must either be using very substandard wire or leaving it on far too long. As I said, I have never seen this happen.
Yes, I do prefer copper but I usually use anodized aluminum.

 

[Adair M]

I use aluminum wire frequently and have for many years. I have never had this happen. To begin with, no aluminum wire I have ever used has been painted. It is anodized. If this finish wears off and shows silver color you must either be using very substandard wire or leaving it on far too long. As I said, I have never seen this happen.
Yes, I do prefer copper but I usually use anodized aluminum.

Some of it is anodized. Some not.

I’ve seen the silver aluminum (which started off being black) on trees Kenji Murata styled.

 

[sorce]

Some of it is anodized. Some not.

When it suits your position, using the correct product means nothing.

Sorce

 

[Adair M]

Seems you are still the one confused about the difference between how and where, not Vance.

It's not how you remove the foliage.
It's where.

Sorce

Did you look at the pictures I posted?
I have always said it’s not “fingers vs scissors”, but where the cut is made.
If you are taking the tips off, you’re “pinching” whether you use scissors or fingers. The way it should be done is remove entire tufts.

 

[Adair M]

When it suits your position, using the correct product means nothing.

Sorce

Sorce, those words are all in the English language, I recognize them. But when put together the way you have, just doesn’t make any sense. We were talking about colored aluminum wire. I tried to figure out what you were trying to say, given the context.

but, sorry, it just won’t compute.

 

[sorce]

Did you look at the pictures I posted?

I can't stand the look of those branches, it makes everything look like those desert pines that look like mushrooms.

The other thing is so ridiculously roundabout I have nothing to say.

Sorce

 

[Adair M]

I can't stand the look of those branches, it makes everything look like those desert pines that look like mushrooms.

The other thing is so ridiculously roundabout I have nothing to say.

Sorce

You can’t stand Which branches?

 

[sorce]

Sorce, those words are all in the English language, I recognize them. But when put together the way you have, just doesn’t make any sense. We were talking about colored aluminum wire. I tried to figure out what you were trying to say, given the context.

but, sorry, it just won’t compute.

Say, dude used the wrong product.

Not, I am right because this Japanese dude...

We're supposed to use anodized aluminum for aesthetic purposes.

It's not "OK" to do it otherwise.

Sorce

 

[sorce]

You can’t stand Which branches?

Junipers like this.

Too fake and stylized.

Not that I don't understand why the Japanese do it.

Sorce