Does anyone overwinter on the bench?

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I.e. not overwinter? I’m sure it is species specific. But, I overwinter on the ground and have mulched with leaves, but my maples got hit with some fungal issues, so last season I didn’t use leaves. My Chinese junipers always come out worse for wear in the spring, leaves or no, I think because the cascading nature keeps them too close to the ground.

Alternatively, I could wait until it gets “really cold,” before I move them down. Like 10f and below?
 

0soyoung

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Other than a few big things that are always in the ground (elevated on pieces of 2x4 for drainage) everything I have stays on the benches year-round. On those rare occasions when temps are forecast to plummet below 15F, things get stuffed into the garage or put on the ground near the house (warmer there than by the back fence). Everything goes back once the occasion has passed.

It is all about roots. Things in big pots are less vulnerable than in small pots. For example, I have a pair of star magnolias potted in 3 foot cubes. They survived a bad night whereas a smaller one in a 6 inch x 2 inch pot did not. Wet soil/substrate is a big thermal mass (heat capacity of water), but this only matters if the extreme cold is transitory.
 

GGB

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I keep everything on my bench til low twenties are the norm at night. then it's garage time for the wimps and tinies and hardy stuff simply gets set on the ground. Would hypothetically put everything in the garage if it got down around 10F but it hasn't done that here in years. Forecast looks good (25 to 40F) I just bench it with everything
 

Deep Sea Diver

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Its seems you did well last winter, yet need to do more frequent copper sprays for your maples etc and switch to bark nuggets vs leaves.

To answer your question, It all depends on whats in your collection and your microclimate. For example @Osoyoug is near the water. We are further towards the mountains. Different microclimate.

One of the myths that seems to persist in bonsai in regard to overwintering is the observation “All the trees survived the winter” so they are healthy. Followed with the thought “thus the bonsai is robust and resilient enough to withstand the rigors of bonsai training this year this year.”
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Just because a bonsai “survives“ the winter doesn’t mean it hasn’t gotten its roots damaged. Bonsai Heresay has a good write up on this topic. Interesting how trees the roots of some trees one thinks as hardy are far from cold hardy.

A large pot may not freeze through, but the roots around the pot likely might… enough to cause damage, especially to the fine feeder roots. When this occurs there are dead roots mixed in an area where new roots are trying to grow. Experiments done here last year with probes and thermometers all through last winter demonstrated this situation. Also the root temperature differential on a bench at times was 7F less the in a pot on the ground. (See resource)


While some species tolerate this situation (dead rotting roots) others are negatively effected. For example, Rick Garcia in Satsuki Azalea Bonsai, mentions that azalea roots will not grow where dead roots are.

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Paradox

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Its seems you did well last winter, yet need to do more frequent copper sprays for your maples etc and switch to bark nuggets vs leaves.

To answer your question, It all depends on whats in your collection and your microclimate. For example @Osoyoug is near the water. We are further towards the mountains. Different microclimate.

One of the myths that seems to persist in bonsai in regard to overwintering is the observation “All the trees survived the winter” so they are healthy. Followed with the thought “thus the bonsai is robust and resilient enough to withstand the rigors of bonsai training this year this year.”
.
Just because a bonsai “survives“ the winter doesn’t mean it hasn’t gotten its roots damaged. Bonsai Heresay has a good write up on this topic. Interesting how trees the roots of some trees one thinks as hardy are far from cold hardy.

A large pot may not freeze through, but the roots around the pot likely might… enough to cause damage, especially to the fine feeder roots. When this occurs there are dead roots mixed in an area where new roots are trying to grow. Experiments done here last year with probes and thermometers all through last winter demonstrated this situation. Also the root temperature differential on a bench at times was 7F less the in a pot on the ground. (See resource)


While some species tolerate this situation (dead rotting roots) others are negatively effected. For example, Rick Garcia in Satsuki Azalea Bonsai, mentions that azalea roots will not grow where dead roots are.

cheers
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Good stuff
 

Shogun610

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All depends on what your climate is and what your backyard is like. I for one have stuff in cold garage in winder for any thing that has been bent hard or wired in September, shohin , or subtropical stuff. Everything else is outside but in cold frame used with my benches and blocks that I use to hold up trees on benches in growing season. I personally watch for mice and rodents so focus is on preventing that and ensuring everything is on the ground. You just gotta take it one day at a time. When in doubt on a super super cold night. Take stuff inside or garage .. or even cover
 

Paradox

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I should have mentioned that I have kept my colder hardy trees (mugo, scotts and Japanese white pines) out on the bench longer than my other less cold hardy trees.

I've kept them there until temperatures below 25 were forecast at night then put them on the ground.
 

Shogun610

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Ah yes duhhhhhhhhhhhhh… dormancy spray is very important too. And some pines or conifers if natives will need very little protection other than on ground. Ground can offer a 7 degree difference in insulation for RUTS. Just keep in touch w some local heads in your area to see what they do breh
 

Paradox

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There is a picture somewhere of Bill Valvanis' trees on his benches under 4 inches of snow.
I'm sure he doesn't leave them all out on his benches but some species certainly can.
 
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With the notoriously pleasant reputation of Wisconsin winter I err on the side of caution with everything. Sure my Pines, Junipers and extremely cold hardy deciduous material will probably do fine with a bit of snow insulation. But ultimately I have to shuffle a lot of my bonsai and pre-bonsai into the unheated garage for protection, and at the point I'm moving 80% of my material there isn't a compelling reason to not move the rest.
 
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BTW, this (^^) is a link.
I missed the link the first time around.. I’ll have to look up some of my species to see if I can determine the root hardiness for them.
I don’t have a garage, but I do have a shed. The only time I tried to overwinter anything in a (previous house, previous) shed, the olive and jasamin? (little yellow flower) either got too cold or dried out in there because I wasn’t paying enough attention to them. So I have shied away from the shed since then.
I may just wait until later in the season for the juniper that were most susceptible. It may have been mites in mid spring that hit the juniper anyways.
Btw my (2) maples had a summer vacation watering mishap and are likely no longer with us. I have some seeds, so I’ll start up some new prospects.
 
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Not only species specific but also site specific. All my trees, except ficus, overwinter on the benches because it never gets below -5C here.
Exactly - 9a here and still certain stuff DOES go into a cold greenhouse and tropicals even come indoors.

Chinese elms can be snowflakes for me because they will remain actively growing while ever the temperatures are 10C and above - making them susceptible to any sudden cold-snap.
 

rockm

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I.e. not overwinter? I’m sure it is species specific. But, I overwinter on the ground and have mulched with leaves, but my maples got hit with some fungal issues, so last season I didn’t use leaves. My Chinese junipers always come out worse for wear in the spring, leaves or no, I think because the cascading nature keeps them too close to the ground.

Alternatively, I could wait until it gets “really cold,” before I move them down. Like 10f and below?
It is very species specific, but by-and-large not protecting trees around here is a risky proposition. I allow all my trees to get hit by repeated shallow frosts and freezes in October and November to harden them off for lower temps. I put my trees into storage at Thanksgiving for the most part. However, if temps are forecast to go below 25 for a few nights, I bring most trees inside. That kind of early cold can be very very bad. Early shallow freezes, like the ones that have happened over the last couple of days where nighttime temps hover around 32-30 or even 29F, aren't a problem and can help keep trees healthy to a certain extent. If daytime temperatures recover into the 50's or 60's it prevents the pot and soil from freezing through--this is dependent on soil volume of course. Smaller trees in smaller pots are more at risk from damage as they freeze more quickly.

You risk significant damage if you leave most deciduous species exposed to temps below 25 F. Conifers, for the most part, are better able to stand up to colder temps. If you wait until temps drop into the teens and below to put deciduous trees into protection, you risk losing the tree. Even native species, like Carolina Hornbeam, bald cypress, American Beech and others won't reliably stand up to those temperatures. I leave my Ponderosa pine out on the bench all winter. It can handle lower temps. Amur maple can as well. I only shelter those from the wind.

Cascade design trees are bitch to store for the winter, as you have discovered. Some bonsaiists remove such trees from their container and store the cascade trees on their sides under mulch with the branches pointing upwards...

And BTW, later in the season, snow is your friend. The pic is of some of my trees in backyard storage. Underneath the snow, their pots are under six inches of mulch.
 

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penumbra

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I have some pines, fir, spruce and a balsam that stay on the benches all winter as they have for several years. I also have a number of dwarf conifers that share that space. I really don't like looking at bare benches.
 

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I live by Charlotte, NC, so our average lows are only right about freezing. That means some nights might get down in the mid 20's on occasion. However not a single day in the last two years failed to get significantly above freezing during the day, and the ground has never frozen. Last two winters I have kept all my trees on benches - if they were on benches to begin with. This included my Mediterannean species like cork oaks, live oaks and olives. Tropicals, of course, came indoors.
 
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BrianBay9

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I'm on the coast but not in the tropics, but even my tropicals have stayed outside the last few years with no ill effects. I haven't seen lows consistently below 40 F (4.5 C) in at least 5 years. Not like it used to be.
 

rodeolthr

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I have hundreds of trees, from seedlings in flats to more developed bonsai. As I have no other place to put them, they are outside all winter long. For the past several years, they have routinely experienced extended periods well below freezing, as @Deep Sea Diver stated. A combination of not being here, and having nowhere else to go, makes me grit my teeth when I watch the weather forecast. But, for whatever reason, they always come through and leaf out beautifully in the spring.....go figure. Granted, this is a very mild climate compared to many, but when a shohin pot is frozen solid for a week, it's still frozen solid.
 

rockm

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I have hundreds of trees, from seedlings in flats to more developed bonsai. As I have no other place to put them, they are outside all winter long. For the past several years, they have routinely experienced extended periods well below freezing, as @Deep Sea Diver stated. A combination of not being here, and having nowhere else to go, makes me grit my teeth when I watch the weather forecast. But, for whatever reason, they always come through and leaf out beautifully in the spring.....go figure. Granted, this is a very mild climate compared to many, but when a shohin pot is frozen solid for a week, it's still frozen solid.
The OP is not in Washington state. They are in Washington DC/MD. I'm just south of them in No. Va. We have mild winters compared to Wisconsin, but harsh compared to Washington state. Lows can sometimes reach into sub-zero in bad winters. Normally nighttime lows are in the mid 20's in Jan. and Feb. They can go even lower for days on end. Duration of cold makes a big difference with overwintering, as well as only temperature. Exposure to prolonged deep freezes kills trees. Shohin and mame are usually the first to go.

A frozen pot is not a frozen pot. Depth of cold makes a huge difference. If that freeze is only into the mid-high 20's intracellular water generally doesn't freeze. Prolonged freezes below 25 F freezes intracellular water (water inside root tissue cells, as opposed to intercellular water between cells). That frozen intracellular water explodes living cells (like freezing a can of soda ruptures the aluminum as the content inside expand), damaging tissue or entire root systems.
 
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