Does it matter when you buy bonsai

[BalconyBonsai]

Hi, I don't know if this is a stupid question but I'm wondering what your ideas are regarding when, at what time of the year, is the best to buy a new tree, most in regards to trees that needs to be packaged and sent through some mailing service. I live in a place with differing seasons so trees will need to be overwintered and my suspiscion is that maybe buying in the current season, just before fall, might be a bad idea since I assume that the overwintering(and being packaged and sent) can be stressful for the trees.

So is it better to buy in the spring or does it matter at all? Is there any difference between buying an older established tree compared to a 2-4 year old tree?

 

[Forsoothe!]

It all depends upon how delicate or tough the species is. Next, is what situation is the root system in, bare root naturally needs go to straight into a growing season, potted 4" (10cm) would be more problematic than 1 gal (4 lt). Where it's coming from is very important, too. Coming from an equal growing zone is less stressful than from a warmer, longer season zone. How you intend to winter it over can make the difference between easy or hard winter. Inside a outbuilding that never gets too warm, especially in spring is favored by some, but bringing it back out in spring when the plant has satisfied the rest period days before the weather gets pleasant enough for the tree to stay out overnight forces you to move the tree twice a day. An area protected from winds outdoors is helpful, and mulching with leaves is good for most hardy species, but again it depends on your zone and how solidly the tree fits your zone. If a tree is rated zone 3 to 8 and you are a 3 or an 8 that's more problematic than if you are a 4 to 7, etc. Setting the tree on bare ground and mulching with leaves up over the edge of the pot is not as protective as sinking the pot in the soil up to the edge of the pot and mulching, but most don't have to do that, only those places with severe winters with ground temps that fall below 15/20°F (-10°C).

Most people should start with potted plants from a local landscape nursery which are cheaper and more likely to be hardy to your zone. They are already in a container, have been for some time, and it's plastic and won't break. Messing with roots immediately before plants go to sleep is a bad practice. They can go to sleep and never wake up. Buying the less hardy plants shipped in spring when the weather permits putting the plant immediately in growing situation is less likely to fail. Buying locally very late in the season gets cheap plants, but you are assuming the risk that the seller didn't want, so that's a trade-off.

 

[0soyoung]

I think the issue is the hours in transit, in the hold of an airplane at 30,000 feet and likely exposed to temperatures below freezing. All things considered, I think it is best in late winter so that the trees are dormant and cold adapted when in shipment. Presumably the trees will have accumulated some number of bud chill hours at their point of origin. You keep the tree outside after arrival, it remains dormant until the days warm.

Problems could arise if the tree hasn't accumulated the minimum bud chill hours prior to shipment into a warmer climate. Simplistically, buds won't break until temperatures rise above 5C until after some number of hours at temperatures below 5C have been accumulated. So, if the tree is shipped too soon, it won't have the necessary bud chill hours and might not get further chilling after receipt. Simplistically, it would not break bud at all that year. Buds can be 'forced' to break after some time at temperatures well above 5C, so the net result is poor growth and a very sick seeming tree that first season (it will be fine after another winter).

It may be a bit more complicated moving trees from the southern hemisphere to you, but I'll assume you're not doing/worrying about this.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Two answers. When one is able to care for and give protection needed in cold weather(mostly). When one can afford. "Sometimes" best deals can be found in non ideal season.

 

[Shibui]

I don't think it matters when trees are shipped. They don't seem to notice the changes in my experience. There would be much more limited mail order if trees did not survive trips in the mail.
Bud chill hours is vastly over rated IMHO. According to many experts I should not be able to grow many of the trees I have. Growers in even warmer climates are also managing to grow trees that are reputed to have chilling requirements. In most case the trees will be coming from a similar climate zone so more or less chill is irrelevant.
Buying in fall can be frustrating because you will need to wait for months before you can see and life in the tree or actually do anything with it. Purchase in late winter/spring allows you to see and do sooner.
Ideal time to buy is when you see the right tree and have funds for purchase.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

If you are expecting certain blooms, fruits or leaf size/shape, you may want to buy the tree when it’s displaying those characteristics.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Sub-tropical, and tropical, that are going to be wintered indoors or in a heated greenhouse, can be ordered anytime, assuming you can get safe shipping.

Most bonsai trees are outdoor trees, that get wintered outdoors with little to moderate protection. Especially if the tree comes from a nursery in a significantly warmer climate, the tree will need time to adapt. A minimum of 8 to 12 weeks are needed for a tree to make the metabolic changes that result in winter hardiness. In Sweden, it's probably a bit late to order hardy material from significantly warmer location.

The type and degree of winter protection you provide plays a significant role in what species you can successfully use as bonsai. Look into this topic before you buy.

 

[Cadillactaste]

I never ship tropical in cold months. Even when a heat pack is an option. To me...its not worth the risk. I've had the seller hold onto it until it was safe to ship come spring. My spring...not the location where it ships from. My night temps is what I calculate.

Depending on what your winter set up is...acclimaying and offering it proper dormancy. Winter isn't always ideal to ship if you don't have a controlled cold greenhouse. especially if you are in a colder climate than where it ships. But again...night temps figured in even then. For shipping.

As mentioned above...where the tree ships from is key to acclimating is essential in my opinion. All but two of my trees have been mailed to me. I have 30 in my collection. That is a huge factor to be weighed into success.

 

[sorce]

Our mail has been taking so long, trees will die.

They don't tell you anything either, just hand you the same slip with the expected date.

If shipping trees was a poor idea before, it's stupid now.

Dig Local!

Sorce

 

[Cadillactaste]

Sorce...you always were against shipping. I wouldn't have my collection if that were the case.

*** I will stress...Monday for shipping is an important element I left out.

Heavy Covid where states were closed down I would have agreed. But I order our dog food online. The mailing schedule is back to before Covid. I actually order a lot from online living very rural...and having compromised respiratory, I'm not venturing out where the larger stores are. I've not shopped in an actual store since December when I first got ill. Then Covid hit as I finally was recovering.

This beauty was shipped this spring. Dwarf Powderpuff...for ones unsure the species.

 

[shinmai]

My experience is that good bonsai producers will be very forthright about when it’s safe to ship. Most come by Fedex so slow snail mail isn’t really a concern. As an example I purchased a nice azalea from a specialty dealer in California in January who quite kindly held the tree and cared for it until it was warm enough to ship in March. I think it’s important to be mindful of the temperatures during the transit interval, since many warehouses and trucks are unheated. A sudden ice storm that grounds air shipping could result in a tree being trapped in fatal freezing temperature while stranded along the way.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Our mail has been taking so long, trees will die.

They don't tell you anything either, just hand you the same slip with the expected date.

If shipping trees was a poor idea before, it's stupid now.

Dig Local!

Sorce

FedEx priority Overnight! Had 4 tortoises/2 different shipments arrive this way Florida to Oregon 24 hours or less to local shipping depot in past 2 weeks. USPO priority or 2-3 day shipping never has been reliable personally. UPS forget it!

 

[leatherback]

I am not sure how the mail works where you live. I find that most trees I send out to the Benelus countries arrive in 1-3 days of me dropping it off at the postoffice in germany. If the tree it healthy and well-packaged that will not be an issue. The only problem I have had was with a tree I received from someone sent out in the mids of the heatwave, poorly packaged, tumbled around in the box & sat somewhere in the sun. It lost its leaves but is now green again.

End of winter might be very good for you. You get the tree dormant. You can do a repot at the right time and start your growing season with the tree in your preferred substrate & ahvae a look at the roots. Downside.. You can not verify health, foliage untill weeks / months after receiving.

In geneal recommendation is to buy when a tree is in full leaf as you can assess health best that way.

In the end it also comes down to: Do yu trust the selling party to deliver what you pay for. If you do, anytime of the year is fine, except for the hottest weeks, which, to be honest, usually is not so hot between in Sweden, northern germany etc.

 

[shinmai]

I’ve thought about this a bit more since last night, and have a couple of things to add. First, with respect to timing of a purchase: if you like trees that flower, most garden centers and home improvement stores will put flowering trees/shrubs on clearance as soon as they’re done flowering, thus the six Japanese flowering quinces for which I paid seven dollars each. Likewise, azaleas and gardenias often become inexpensive after mid-summer. Also, if you attend exhibitions with vendor areas, there are sometimes bargains to be had on the morning of the last day, as often the vendor would rather sell at a discount and have one less tree to lug home.

The other big part of the timing equation is, whenever you might have purchased the tree, when is the time to start working on it? It takes a certain amount of self-control to buy a tree in a nursery pot in late summer and then have the discipline to wait until the following spring to begin molesting it. This is a lesson that I learned at the expense of a few dead trees that might otherwise have had interesting potential. My grandfather once told me, “Yes, the school of experience is indeed the best teacher, but the tuition can sometimes be brutally expensive.”

 

[leatherback]

“Yes, the school of experience is indeed the best teacher, but the tuition can sometimes be brutally expensive.”

 

[BalconyBonsai]

It all depends upon how delicate or tough the species is. Next, is what situation is the root system in, bare root naturally needs go to straight into a growing season, potted 4" (10cm) would be more problematic than 1 gal (4 lt). Where it's coming from is very important, too. Coming from an equal growing zone is less stressful than from a warmer, longer season zone. How you intend to winter it over can make the difference between easy or hard winter. Inside a outbuilding that never gets too warm, especially in spring is favored by some, but bringing it back out in spring when the plant has satisfied the rest period days before the weather gets pleasant enough for the tree to stay out overnight forces you to move the tree twice a day. An area protected from winds outdoors is helpful, and mulching with leaves is good for most hardy species, but again it depends on your zone and how solidly the tree fits your zone. If a tree is rated zone 3 to 8 and you are a 3 or an 8 that's more problematic than if you are a 4 to 7, etc. Setting the tree on bare ground and mulching with leaves up over the edge of the pot is not as protective as sinking the pot in the soil up to the edge of the pot and mulching, but most don't have to do that, only those places with severe winters with ground temps that fall below 15/20°F (-10°C).

Most people should start with potted plants from a local landscape nursery which are cheaper and more likely to be hardy to your zone. They are already in a container, have been for some time, and it's plastic and won't break. Messing with roots immediately before plants go to sleep is a bad practice. They can go to sleep and never wake up. Buying the less hardy plants shipped in spring when the weather permits putting the plant immediately in growing situation is less likely to fail. Buying locally very late in the season gets cheap plants, but you are assuming the risk that the seller didn't want, so that's a trade-off.

Thanks for your thorough answer, a lot of good things to think about! In my case I would be looking at buying from europe, probably Germany which would have a slightly warmer(at least I assume so since it's further south) climate than me, although I imagine the difference should only be slight.

The tree(s) in my case would likely be maple(s), so outdoor decidious. I have some trees from before and have a plan for how they will be protected in the coming winter, I will build a small structure with a polystyrene floor covered with greenhouse plastic that can be opened up to prevent the temperature to rise too high and get the air circulating. The pits them selves would then be wrapped in bubble wrap. So a new tree would be placed into the same structure. I live in an appartment so I don't have access to real ground to bury the pots in unfortunately.

I take from your reply that importing young plants would not be the best idea since the pot sizes would be too small, is this correct?

Buying local nursery plats is difficult where I live. The garden centers here don't really have any variety of trees and you still need to pay alot so importing seems like my best bet.

 

[leatherback]

If you had ordered saturday, your trees would have been ready for delivery at your door, probably tomorrow.

The longer you think about this, the later in the year we will be.
If you have trees that you like, Just order, and protect the trees as you will do next year. Fall is still coming, the trees have plenty of time to adjust.
Germany is an option. But also look into places like Kaizen bonsai in the UK, bonsahop.nl in the Netherlands, depending on what you are after.

 

[BalconyBonsai]

I think the issue is the hours in transit, in the hold of an airplane at 30,000 feet and likely exposed to temperatures below freezing. All things considered, I think it is best in late winter so that the trees are dormant and cold adapted when in shipment. Presumably the trees will have accumulated some number of bud chill hours at their point of origin. You keep the tree outside after arrival, it remains dormant until the days warm.

Problems could arise if the tree hasn't accumulated the minimum bud chill hours prior to shipment into a warmer climate. Simplistically, buds won't break until temperatures rise above 5C until after some number of hours at temperatures below 5C have been accumulated. So, if the tree is shipped too soon, it won't have the necessary bud chill hours and might not get further chilling after receipt. Simplistically, it would not break bud at all that year. Buds can be 'forced' to break after some time at temperatures well above 5C, so the net result is poor growth and a very sick seeming tree that first season (it will be fine after another winter).

It may be a bit more complicated moving trees from the southern hemisphere to you, but I'll assume you're not doing/worrying about this.

Hi! No I would be shipping from within europe, maybe as far south as france or maybe spain(since I got some nice advise on online retailers there in another thread here). I live north of all these places so I think the trees would likely be moved to a colder location compared to where they came from so I guess I don't want to buy too early in the sprung either since they might have woken up in their home environment and then be exposed to cold.

I'm not sure how they are usually transported. I always assumed they are transported by trucks, train etc. but air freight might be involved also. But aren't cargo holds in airplanes insulated in some way?

Anyways, thanks for the information about how the budding process works! That is really helpful!

 

[leatherback]

I'm not sure how they are usually transported. I always assumed they are transported by trucks, train etc. but air freight might be involved also. But aren't cargo holds in airplanes insulated in some way?

They are send as normal parcels, with luck, labelled to be fragile.
I have not had cold-damage on trees.

To be honest, I think you are overthinking. Do not order from southern europe once your fall has started; Many places might not get to a frost state there and you do not want to get your trees from +5c winter into Sweden at -10c. Dormancy and dormancy are two different things in different locations. Winter hardiness needs to build up with ever increasing cold. Dropping from non-frost into -10c can be too much.

Find a respectable seller. Order your plants soon. Prepare them through fall and put them to bed for winter. Start the trees next year on your biological calender.

 

[BalconyBonsai]

If you had ordered saturday, your trees would have been ready for delivery at your door, probably tomorrow.

The longer you think about this, the later in the year we will be.
If you have trees that you like, Just order, and protect the trees as you will do next year. Fall is still coming, the trees have plenty of time to adjust.
Germany is an option. But also look into places like Kaizen bonsai in the UK, bonsahop.nl in the Netherlands, depending on what you are after.

Yes, I know. I sometimes have difficulties deciding, especially when money is involved... But thanks for encouraging me!

Now I just need to come up with a good excuse that I can tell my girlfriend why it's neccessary that I buy yet another tree...