Does Vinegar and Fertilizer mix at the same time?

edrichard

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Hello all,
I just had someone mix soil for me for an azalea I repotted last week but he only used a little peat moss, and worm casings (that I provided), and mixed it with potting soil. He did not use any of the steer manure I had purchased, saying that it would burn the roots.
I tested the soil afterwards with a very old 3 in 1 soil tester and the reading was nowhere close to the acidic range. I bought a new 3 way tester and I'm waiting for some soil acidifier to come from Amazon. In the meanwhile, I want to use diluted vinegar to bring the soil ph down to 4.5 - 5.5 range.
Questions:
- After watering with the diluted vinegar, do I immediately measure for ph of the soil or wait for a period?
- Can I add azalea fertilizer to the soil immediately after the vinegar, or should I wait?
- If so, how long should I wait to mix in the fertilizer?
- If the soil ph goes to the acidic range, how long should I wait before using the acidifier?
- When using the diluted vinegar, should I water my azaleas first, and then come behind that with the diluted vinegar, or just water each pot with the diluted vinegar first?
Thanks in advance for any input. I am going to mix my own soil moving forward...I have peat moss (from Nuccio Nursery in Los Angeles), the worm casings, and the steer manure, but there are so many different mixtures online, I'm at the point to just pick one and go with it...🤔😟
 

rockm

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Pick kanuma soil. Use it straight out of the bag. Stop with the chemistry project.


 

HorseloverFat

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Pick kanuma soil. Use it straight out of the bag. Stop with the chemistry project.


I can't REALLY grow Rhodies in pots...

But if I ever tried again.. THIS is what I would do.

Op.. I, for some time during my first year and a half, Insisted on treating my tap water against the lead buffer...

It was... a LOT of work... for only a FEW plants to even seem to care...

I burned holes in my shoes... flooring....

Ended up mixing a few gallons and "ahh I don't need to test THIS time.."-ing them...

Aaaaand killed half my room with "Acid-Water".

At it's BEST... this "Method" only made a MINUTE difference... in a HANDFUL of plants..

The problem... I was REALLY interested and "gung-ho" about things and operations I didn't FULLY understand the implications of.

So.. this ended up, damaging things, spending money, and taking much TIME.. for only those results.

...

As far as your soil/substrate acidity, correct composition from the GETGO is the only thing that will guarantee correct PH over time. Any attempts to AMMEND the soil it's in.. will compound your problems and will HAVE TO BE temporary. Until you can get it into soil/substrate properly geared towards acid-loving flowering shrubs.

Aluminum Sulfate would work utilized in building a temporary acidic environment.

I mess around with a few experimental substrates..

But I also compost(and par-conpost, soil-depending) 3 different types of barks... I fabricate my own charcoal and grog.. I drag magnets through the sand to get the black sand I want.. ect. ect. ect..

The point is.. I played around and FAILED TONS.. and NOW have a better understanding... but would not recommend this, particular, learning approach.

😂

So... yeah...

listen to @rockm .. and you'll spare yourself some heartache.
 

penumbra

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Last summer I bought 2 each of several satsuki azaleas. I planted some in Kanuma and some in an all organic mix heavy in pine bark. They are being held and grown side by side. I see no difference at this point but time will tell. It will probably be next summer before I see a difference, if I do see a difference.
 

rockm

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Last summer I bought 2 each of several satsuki azaleas. I planted some in Kanuma and some in an all organic mix heavy in pine bark. They are being held and grown side by side. I see no difference at this point but time will tell. It will probably be next summer before I see a difference, if I do see a difference.
The idea was to take the complexity out of the OP's approach. Bending over backward to accomplish something that is basically pretty simple isn't the best way to get success. I agree that kanuma isn't the only path to soil for azalea, but it is the simplest and most straightforward. I have a couple of older satsukis. One is in straight kanuma. The other is in Aoki soil. Both are doing well. What they're NOT in is a guess-your-best, add-in temporary (possibly dangerous) acidifier.
 

edrichard

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Here is the azalea...
Pick kanuma soil. Use it straight out of the bag. Stop with the chemistry project.


Thanks for the Kanuma advice...will not be buying this for two reasons: it's too expensive at this time (need to put those $$ in my gas tank, not my pots), about 5 or 6 years ago I read on a website (don't remember!) that kanuma did not work well in southern California's climate. Don't want to spend that kind of money only to have it fail on my plants too. I tested the ph this morning (alkaline) and added the diluted vinegar this morning = ph now about 5.5. Will recheck this weekend and add some of the acidifier if necessary...then wait for a few days and fertilize with azalea fertilizer. 🤔🙂
 

rockm

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Here is the azalea...

Thanks for the Kanuma advice...will not be buying this for two reasons: it's too expensive at this time (need to put those $$ in my gas tank, not my pots), about 5 or 6 years ago I read on a website (don't remember!) that kanuma did not work well in southern California's climate. Don't want to spend that kind of money only to have it fail on my plants too. I tested the ph this morning (alkaline) and added the diluted vinegar this morning = ph now about 5.5. Will recheck this weekend and add some of the acidifier if necessary...then wait for a few days and fertilize with azalea fertilizer. 🤔🙂
Good luck then.
 

sorce

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Welcome to Crazy!

I believe pH is of a concern when you have dead soil and are going the chemical route.

Sounds like you are trying to create an "organic", living soil, so pH shouldn't matter, the tree will tell the soil what it needs and the soil will make it so.

pH certainly ain't no instant killer, so observing the tree would be better than "adjusting" it, cuz those adjustments can be instakillers.

Sorce
 

nuttiest

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This is really interesting can you post leaf shots now, and after the acidifier next week? Wondering if you will have a 'nutrient lockout' or greener.
 

Paradox

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I agree with @rockm. Playing chemistry lab with your plants isn't a good idea. The azaleas didn't need immediate adjustment and would have been fine waiting for the soil amendment you ordered.

I also agree with @Firstflush about using fertilizer for acid loving plants
 

19Mateo83

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I love some seeds. Come in here with a question. Get quality answers and knowledge and then ignore it. 🤣
 

HorseloverFat

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Welcome to Crazy!

I believe pH is of a concern when you have dead soil and are going the chemical route.

Sounds like you are trying to create an "organic", living soil, so pH shouldn't matter, the tree will tell the soil what it needs and the soil will make it so.

pH certainly ain't no instant killer, so observing the tree would be better than "adjusting" it, cuz those adjustments can be instakillers.

Sorce
This is where I'm coming from.. If OP is looking for acid-loving sterile or non-rich soil.. Kanuma is the way to go.

But LOTS of decomposition happens in more organic soil which yield acidic environments.

Going the organic route requires much more experience with not only the initial use and properties of the organic components.. but also how they act over time...

Conifer bark, paper-bark-tree bark, composts, Flowering bush barks, Fish waste, seaweed, kelp, casings, Bog Moss, owl pellets.. ect ect. ALL modify Acidity and alkalinity in their own way.. and these AMOUNTS change with stage of decomposition over time.

The "Acid-Lovers" TERMINOLOGY gets a lot of people hung up..

Because you don't really realize the FEW "Lovers".. there CAN EVEN BE.

There can be Acid-Loving, Lime-loving (alkaline) or balanced...( I thought)

And most "Lovers" on either end tolerate light fluctuations or deficits in the precise PH they need.

So if your making "More Acidic RICH soil".. you need to start from the ground up..and learn and get "good" at it FIRST...not try to alter the soil the tree is in.

For NOW... until repot Aluminum Sulfate or some MirAcid type product WILL work..

Then when repot time comes.. you'll have made up your mind which direction to go.

But if it where ME... I'd go Kanuma... and I LOVE mixing custom "growth" substrates.

🤓
 
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HorseloverFat

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Here is the azalea...

Thanks for the Kanuma advice...will not be buying this for two reasons: it's too expensive at this time (need to put those $$ in my gas tank, not my pots), about 5 or 6 years ago I read on a website (don't remember!) that kanuma did not work well in southern California's climate. Don't want to spend that kind of money only to have it fail on my plants too. I tested the ph this morning (alkaline) and added the diluted vinegar this morning = ph now about 5.5. Will recheck this weekend and add some of the acidifier if necessary...then wait for a few days and fertilize with azalea fertilizer. 🤔🙂
Vinegar is great... You boil down a gallon.. you got enough anhydrous Acetic Acid to cook up a bunch of..

Whoops..

Had a flashback to my "Dark Days"

🤓
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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pH of soil and water is often a red herring, a false focal point. The key chemical trait of horticulture concern is total alkalinity, which is a measure of buffer capacity.

Water that is less than 600 mg/ liter calcium carbonate is generally "good enough" for most commercial horticulture. Plant have an internal ability to buffer the water film around their root tips to their preferred pH range. For example an orchid, Paph primulinum growing on bare limestone in Sumatra, water running over the rock was pH 8.4 or something near there. J. Asher measured the pH of the water film on the root tips, the pH was about 5.4 give or take, it's been 2 decades since the article was published, exact numbers are fading from memory.

Point is, pH is not the trait to focus on, buffer capacity is, as measured by total alkalinity. While total dissolved solids are not directly related to total alkalinity, total alkalinity is always less than total dissolved solids. Every municipality reports average total dissolved solids in annual water quality reports, some include total alkalinity some do not.

Plants buffer their root environment to their own ideal, it can be a big mistake to try to "out buffer" the plants.

Start with posting on the forum your municipal water report. Let us see how your water chemistry compares to other's experience.
 

shinmai

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Here is the azalea...

Thanks for the Kanuma advice...will not be buying this for two reasons: it's too expensive at this time (need to put those $$ in my gas tank, not my pots), about 5 or 6 years ago I read on a website (don't remember!) that kanuma did not work well in southern California's climate. Don't want to spend that kind of money only to have it fail on my plants too. I tested the ph this morning (alkaline) and added the diluted vinegar this morning = ph now about 5.5. Will recheck this weekend and add some of the acidifier if necessary...then wait for a few days and fertilize with azalea fertilizer. 🤔🙂
Whoever said Kanuma doesn’t work in Southern California is an idiot—and more importantly, dead wrong. And what’s less expensive, a couple of bucks per pot for the right substrate or a dead tree?
 
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